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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    A lesson for muslims: Be in it to win it!
    Foreign muslim preachers anticipate a mighty Islam, -especially- here in the West.

    Kustaw Bessems
    Amsterdam

    "Islam will soon reign supreme", so predicts Sheikh Khalid Yasin. "Despite the fact that unbelievers, heathens and hypocritical muslims would hate this."
    "In actually", Yasin states, "Islam has always been destined to rule the world. But muslims have been weak, and for this Allah gave strength to other peoples." But this can all change, he states, as long as muslims are willing to "compete for power".

    Islam institute Dar al Ilm estimated about a thousand attendants last saturday in the Apollo Hall in south Amsterdam. Fair enough, the turnout turned to be a bit less than that, but they were many regardless and nearly all of them were young. Khalid Yasin, himself born in New York and today operating out of Manchester, was one of the main speakers of this congress and as such managed to draw the crowds.

    Western leaders have disqualified themselves, he feels. They've become obsolete. This offers muslim leaders opportunities. However, "you have to be in it to win it!" What that means? Muslims have to integrate into a society to a reasonable degree to be able to compete for leadership in the West.

    Surrender
    "Islam", Yasin believes, "has been planted in the West as a seed. The soil here is most fertile. If the West permits this seed's growth, they will find a shield in Islam in the coming hundred years. But should they fight it, the consequences would be most dire. The rise of Islam -will- take place in the West, but not with terrorism and hatred. if we prove that Islam is superior then the majority, even the non-muslims, will embrace, accept or tolerate Islam."

    Ultra orthodox preachers dominated this congress. Abu Ameena Bilal Philips, a Jamaican-born convert now employed in India, and Haitham al-Haddad, a Palestinian now living in London, were both also present as speakers.

    "The definition of Islam is not peace", al-Haddad claims. "Muslims who argue that it is, are suffering from an inferiority complex. Islam means surrender. Surrendering to the will of the Creator." Only Allah gets to make laws, al-Haddad feels. The problem with democracy, according to him, is that people never agree. "The muslim solution is an external, unbiased authority who has final say on everything: Allah".

    According to this sheikh, surrender demands total submission to Allah's laws and to see these laws through, even if you at times do not understand them. "It's a test. The entire purpose of life is a test. Following this logic, he then reasons that it's therefore futile to answer the questions of unbelievers. "Why did the prophet have so many wifes? Why was one of them nine years old? I say: if you believe that Muhammad was sincere, there is no reason to ask about his wifes. That too, is a test."

    "If we humans feel that something doesn't add up, or doesn't make sense, that doesn't automatically mean that it's illogical. Take male circumcision. At first we never understood why, but now we see that it prevents HIV infection in Africa. Or female genital manipulation. Few people are in favour of that right now. But who's to say we won't think it entirely normal in the future?"

    The audience itself rarely to never presented criticism. The few questions there were usually regarded reputable scholars, books and websites. The only person slightly out of tone here was an employee at the Turkish embassy. There were also a few Dutchmen like Imam Yassin Elforkani from Amsterdam-Slotervaart. He seemed impressed by the Islamic grandeur presented on stage. "These international preachers inspire us to follow the right road. Compared to them... I'm just a boy getting started."

    Salafism
    Most speakers adressed the radical Sunni split-off Salafism. Beforehand it was announced that any and all mentions of Salafi Islam would be neutral and unbiased, but in the end, most of the speakers adressing Salafism were motivated Salafi muslims themselves. Beforementioned Abu Ameena Bilal Philiphs: "Salafism is quite simply the proper form of Islam." al-Haddad agreed: "Salafism simply is Islam. The way the companions of the Prophet interpreted the Quran is key. Nobody is to differ from this. Islam must not be allowed to adapt to new environments. That will simply produce as many Imams as there are people".

    Emphasis was also placed on requisition of new muslim institutions. Yasin pleaded in favour of Islamic tv shows, social websites like Facebook or Myspace and even Islamic search engines. Otherwise muslim children are simply exposed to too much misinformation. And as Philips says: "Media love to speak ill of Islam and spread falsehoods around. This behaviour can be traced back as far as the Crusades".

    al-Hadded encouraged Dutch muslims to demand Sharia courts to apply muslim law. "It's the only way. The amount of muslims grows quickly. Halal food is commonplace, as if that has nothing to do with Sharia. To get what one wants, one should simply say: I am a Dutch citizen and as such you have to give me what I ask."

    According to Philips, the "destructive influence of the West" must be countered via education. "Sending your children to non-muslim schools is one hundred percent haram." In response to the question what parents should do in the situation of a muslim school providing poor education and a non-muslim school good education, he simply answers: "What is more important. That your child becomes the president of some bank, or that he goes to heaven?

    Source: Newspaper De Pers, Monday May 18th 2009
    It's a direct translation from the original Dutch article so the phrasing may be off here and there, but I think overall I've done an ok job. The fact that such congregations can take place in my country (and will now apparently take place on a regular basis, a new National Islam Congress will take place next year after the success of this one) IMO goes to show how much bad will there is within Islam. I know I know, this thread will be more of the same. "But I know good muslim people!" or "But I'm a good muslim waah waah they are clearly nutcases!". But in the end one fact remains: as long as even a fraction of Islam fights to overthrow the West and -nothing- in the West fights back, this is a fight that can only go one way.

    Wilders 2011.

    EDIT: The part about non muslim schools being one hundred percent haram makes absolutely no sense to me, but I'm keeping it as it is since it's a direct translation from the original author. I'm guessing he made a mistake there in writing it down and probably meant to say that it -wasn't- haram at all.
    Last edited by The Dude; May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    Frankie88's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Come on less then a thousand people took part in that congress whats the big deal?
    How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    The first response and you already fit the stereotype.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    DekuTrash's Avatar Human Directional
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    "Or female genital manipulation. Few people are in favour of that right now. But who's to say we won't think it entirely normal in the future?"



    What exactly is this?
    Doesn't sound pleasant.

    Why are they so intent on taking over Europe?
    I would hope that you guys would fight back over there.



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    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    What are the chances of these guys coming anywhere near actual power?

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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    It's not a group. It's just a congress held by various speakers attracting a completely random audience. It was apparently a great success this year so they're looking to repeat it next year. The people who spoke here aren't actually Dutch, but the audience was and the speakers themselves are active in their efforts to promote radical Islam in the West.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    Frankie88's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    What are the chances of these guys coming anywhere near actual power?
    Zero. Nothing. There is not even a Muslim/Islam political party in the Dutch house of representatives, I don't think there even is one at all.
    How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

    - Woody Allen

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    rusina's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by DekuTrash View Post
    Why are they so intent on taking over Europe?
    Because Africa and Middle-East are so places to live.

  9. #9
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by rusina View Post
    Because Africa and Middle-East are so places to live.
    true, true..people who come from craptacular places usually bring craptacular customs/beliefs. like germans to romans.

  10. #10

    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by DekuTrash View Post
    "Or female genital manipulation. Few people are in favour of that right now. But who's to say we won't think it entirely normal in the future?"



    What exactly is this?
    Doesn't sound pleasant.
    take a butchers knife to a vagina...Google it and see what these animals do.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    take a butchers knife to a vagina...Google it and see what these animals do.
    Sigh. Once again with the FGM dead horse. Google is great. Sadly, it seems to get only the wayward materials - especially when it comes to issues with Islam. Issues with Islam, not Issues in or of Islam. Cos it seems a lot of people have got issues with Islam.

    Please check out this article on the whole FGM/FGC business.

    http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html

    Quote Originally Posted by shazzling View Post
    This isn't a quote. Click on the green arrow to see this post by a Muslim woman who appeared briefly here on the forums. She demystified the hijab and the whole confused business of Female Genitalia Mutilation versus Female Genitalia Circumcision.
    It was in this thread that it was established that FGM is a cultural thing, not a religious thing, for it predates Islam. Specifically, it's an African culture thing. Africa Africans. If you've got the wherewithal to endure some thread-digging, there's a wealth of information in that thread.

    But you could also stay with the status quo, happy in the knowledge that you don't let such nuisances like beyond-the-superficial research get in the way of making negative and profoundly untrue statements made to discredit Islam.

  12. #12

    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by DekuTrash View Post
    "Or female genital manipulation. Few people are in favour of that right now. But who's to say we won't think it entirely normal in the future?"



    What exactly is this?
    Doesn't sound pleasant.

    Why are they so intent on taking over Europe?
    I would hope that you guys would fight back over there.
    he wants to cut some parts in the femal genitalia

    he is a nut job, he claims to be muslim, but he wants to modify the body of human beings

    that's a proff that he believes that the creation of god isn't perfect, and that he needs to modify it as he wishes

  13. #13
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
    he wants to cut some parts in the femal genitalia

    he is a nut job, he claims to be muslim, but he wants to modify the body of human beings

    that's a proff that he believes that the creation of god isn't perfect, and that he needs to modify it as he wishes
    Female genital mutilation is a localised African custom that far predates Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam, Muslims or the Qu'ran anyway.

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

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    Wilder's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    And as long as a small fraction of the west believe that there culture is universally applicable, and-nothing-is capable of fighting back, then, we can see the conclusion of that conflict too.

    blah.

    Wilder>Wilders

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    Frankie88's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    I just don't get your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But in the end one fact remains: as long as even a fraction of Islam fights to overthrow the West and -nothing- in the West fights back, this is a fight that can only go one way.
    Nobody is fighting to overthrow the west read your own article.
    How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

    - Woody Allen

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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie88 View Post
    Nobody is fighting to overthrow the west read your own article.
    Uhm the implication is there, most definitely. If it was up to them, there'd be muslim schools, muslim tv stations, muslim internet, etc. All this stuff to disconnect muslims from western society -after- they've gained enough power to be an important factor in western politics. Islam is a seed that's been planted in the west and no terrorism will be necessary to make Islam grow here. It will happen all by itself.

    That's about this article summed up by a bunch of radical nutjobs.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    You can't change people's opinions. Also, you're trying to cure a headache with an axe.
    Knowledge is a deadly friend, if no one sets the rules. The fate of all mankind I see, is in the hands of fools - King Crimson's Epitaph.
    תחי מדינת ישראל

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    Deep_Red's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    A bunch of insane radicals and an audience of less than a thousand.
    I´m so scared!

    "Every state is founded on violence."
    "Stalin is the grave digger of the revolution."
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    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep_Red View Post
    A bunch of insane radicals and an audience of less than a thousand.
    I´m so scared!
    In New York ... TODAY ... four homegrown Muslim terrorists were caught by the NYPD and the FBI in the act of planting a bomb (thankfully, with inert explosives, provided to them by an FBI agent) on a Jewish Synagogue. Had it been a real bomb, and exploded during a service, it could have killed hundreds. Indeed, that was the purpose of the bomb.

    One of the terrorists was trained in upstate New York, at a Mosque. The other terrorists were drawn into the plot after their release from prison, where they had been converted to Islam.

    The threat is real. The founder of the Muslim Brotherhood stated, in the 1920's, that what the Ottoman Empire had failed to do in the Middle Ages would be accomplished in the future through legal immigration, and in the wombs of their women.

    People in the West ignore this threat at their own peril. People in the West who don't think it can happen deserve their fate, which will be either death or dhimmitude. Perhaps, you'll be willing to convert, rather than the other two options ...

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    Default Re: National Islam Congress: European Islam takes exit F for Fundamentalist

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer View Post
    In New York ... TODAY ... four homegrown Muslim terrorists were caught by the NYPD and the FBI in the act of planting a bomb (thankfully, with inert explosives, provided to them by an FBI agent) on a Jewish Synagogue. Had it been a real bomb, and exploded during a service, it could have killed hundreds. Indeed, that was the purpose of the bomb.

    One of the terrorists was trained in upstate New York, at a Mosque. The other terrorists were drawn into the plot after their release from prison, where they had been converted to Islam.

    The threat is real. The founder of the Muslim Brotherhood stated, in the 1920's, that what the Ottoman Empire had failed to do in the Middle Ages would be accomplished in the future through legal immigration, and in the wombs of their women.

    People in the West ignore this threat at their own peril. People in the West who don't think it can happen deserve their fate, which will be either death or dhimmitude. Perhaps, you'll be willing to convert, rather than the other two options ...
    You actually believe that those guys can take over?!

    Knowledge is a deadly friend, if no one sets the rules. The fate of all mankind I see, is in the hands of fools - King Crimson's Epitaph.
    תחי מדינת ישראל

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