Divide And Conquer - An Expanded Faction Mod - Beta released! 3.99* series Sept 1st Oct ## NEWS! We have reached 31 faction limit !!! ##

[Archaon]

yeah i cant see anywhere that minhiriath had around 5000 at the time of TA, must have read something similar when i was trying to decide if they were good or evil..

Anyway, i agree with you that they are just as relevant as Bree and W needs more evil presence, how about making them 'hording'? or make an orcish/goblin faction all over the W part of the map hording? both make more sense than a new 'power' in the west.
Its true the rangers were keeping evil at bay in the W but that no way means a 'powerful' evil faction should be there (powerful in regards to holding provinces like a foothold).

actually i really like the idea of a roaming orcish 'horde' faction, maybe they can be the rebel faction and we add a 'bandit' faction to hold the random settlements.

too many ideas for one post i think..

[Subzeroplainzero]

they'd really be a unit for rohan, or gondor to use. And seeing as how they aren't critical, i wouldn't just throw them in the mix on a whim.

Sorry mate!

hey, no problem. Maybe something to think about for a future release much further down the line then...

[Renown]

hey there, bandits are selectable as they help me (and those of you out there who want to help me) see how the ai is reacting.

I think Bree follows its AI and attacks the Rangers because they simply are way too weak at start. The lack of men isn't just a ranger problem, it's a problem of all the new factions as I was simply dealing with MASSES of CTD issues. Ask Archaon if you dont believe me. You can't build units until you have extremely high dunedain religion - its 90 for the ranger unit.

As for foot troop rangers, this is actually something I will do in the future - it requires a modeller though.

I'm aware its unbalanced i am working on that currently and will continue to do so.

The read me is pretty clear. I say extract the files within the DAC folder... not the rar...

OK, i know this is a WIP, just thought I'd post my findings. Playing as Duindain Rangers.
--Bandits selectable at start screen.
--Stat map movement a little low
--No starting men except in capital, Ranger post rebelled, Horar taken by Bree in turn five, now at war with Bree. Allied to everyone, turn 25 Outstanding Rep with all.
--All culture is Northmen, built everything possible, no troops, had to turn all settlements to low taxes because of no garrisons. City growth now booming. No troop upkeep so at turn 25 I have 70K

Suggestions: Maybe have Ranger Generals as foot troops. It would be nice while still in early beta to run off it's own BAT file. Also noticed in your READ ME, you say to extract all files into TATW, but first folder is labeled DAC, will cause problems for some people. Good start, gonna give another faction a go, and I'll report back

[Black_Nebula]

Also noticed kings purses set a bit high(western dwarves at 6k, had 50k by turn 5), checked most factions, and some faction's 'Coming of Age' are going to original factions cities.

[Renown]

yeah i cant see anywhere that minhiriath had around 5000 at the time of TA, must have read something similar when i was trying to decide if they were good or evil..

Anyway, i agree with you that they are just as relevant as Bree and W needs more evil presence, how about making them 'hording'? or make an orcish/goblin faction all over the W part of the map hording? both make more sense than a new 'power' in the west.
Its true the rangers were keeping evil at bay in the W but that no way means a 'powerful' evil faction should be there (powerful in regards to holding provinces like a foothold).

actually i really like the idea of a roaming orcish 'horde' faction, maybe they can be the rebel faction and we add a 'bandit' faction to hold the random settlements.

too many ideas for one post i think..

When you say hording do you mean basically a defensive faction? If so then yes I'd agree.

If you mean like a hoard- no base/capital then...

I like the idea of a hording faction. but not with the men of minhiriath. I'm going to remove diplomat's for bree, as they took no aggressive action, but instead responded defensively. It should prevent them declaring war on ANY ALLY. That should solve the Ranger issue temporarily.

I've read in multiple places that Angmar though defeated in the third age was regrowing with the increase of power in Mordor. I feel that the power of Mordor increases, followed by Dol Guldur growing stronger.. and then the orcs/evil things in Angmar grow stronger as a corollary. Sauron wanted to conquer everything, the only reason there was no battles in the NW was because he didn't regrow to his former strength. Now - Angmar's units are honestly pretty crappy. Only the low level goblin/orc units and cave trolls later. Now when it's balanced the ranger's will be holding off units 10-20 times their size, instead of if they were fighting against mordor directly which would be like 50 times their size. Or thats my ideal.

It's hard to mimic the LORE within M2TW. So we have to settle inbetween.

and I love ideas, keep em coming! never too many in one posts (says the long winded guy)

[Renown]

Also noticed kings purses set a bit high(western dwarves at 6k, had 50k by turn 5), checked most factions, and some faction's 'Coming of Age' are going to original factions cities.

Yeah the money is just so you guys can build things way quickly. That WONT last, take advantage of it while you can.

Nice catch with the Coming of Age thing. I'll check it out.

[Renown]

Okay. I'm officially recruiting for part of the DAC team.

I've decided theres a lot I can get done if I don't have to do it all myself.

Here are some of the positions i'm looking to fill...


VnV Master - I'm looking to totally REDESIGN and Rock the VNV's here. I want people to use this mod if for no other reason then 'omg, look at those vnvs'. Ancill's will be secondary for two reasons. 1) Too many ancills = a cluster @%!# because of the 10 ancill limitations. I'll likely be removing some of the ones in vanilla, or at least making their triggers much more rare. (This is something I'd oversee a lot myself as I have a lot of history working in this)

Bannerman - Filled - Tokus*Maximus

Diplomat in Chief - Filled - Archaon

Script-Lord - Part-time I need assistance with scripts, and the ones I'd like to build.

Victoria's Secret Modeller - I'm going to need many models for the new factions and rework some of the ones there.

All of these jobs need people with experience please. At least a year of working within the M2TW modding system.

If you want to help otherwise - I'm always accepting suggestions, and any lore or useful bits of information are welcome too. (I might argue, but I'll read as well i'm a historian by education so... i try to keep an open mind)

If you think you can add something valuable here, let me know either in the thread or a PM and we will see...

[Archaon]

and I love ideas, keep em coming! never too many in one posts (says the long winded guy)

How about including the 'Grey Company'? the single most disappointment in the films from the books..

[Renown]

How about including the 'Grey Company'? the single most disappointment in the films from the books..

they should be included.. from the 2nd level of stables upwards..

recruit_pool "Grey Company" 1 0.25 2 1 requires factions { russia, } and region_religion numenorian 90

this wont be permanent btw. I'm thinking of making a script much like the immortal nazgul one, except for the Grey Company. Basically make it an elite - unrecruitable unit, that when it dies... respawns every couple of turns.

Issues I forsee - I'm unaware of what checks and balances I can use, I may have to end up using a Character for this unit.

[Meneldil]

Here's the LotR wiki article on Minhiriath

You've pretty much made up your mind on this, but I keep thinking this faction is, at the end of the 3rd age, completely unplausible. The men of Minhiriath mostly died or left for other lands. There's no kingdom here, no political organization. The Dunlendings would be pretty much the same faction, except that we know they still exist and are still a "force" to be reckoned with. Furthermore, Dunlendings are probably linked to the ancient inhabitant of Minhiriath. The former probably being people who left Minhiriath after the numerous wars that plagued the area.

While Angmar, though far-fetched, is all in all a plausible choice (there are still orcs, trolls and evil men in the area, and the WK could very well try to gather them once again to rebuild his realm), I clearly can't see how a small group of wood-dwellers could play any role in the War of the Ring, let alone muster a standing army and threaten any other faction. Minhiriath even became part of Arnor and Cardolan. It would make me think that either:
- they men of Arminiath stopped to worship Sauron
- they such a tiny part of the population that they couldn't oppose the annexion of their land by Arnor/Cardolan.

You could replace the Men of Minhiriath by the Dunlendings, give them the Minhiriath area and its surrounding with low populated settlements, that would IMO be more accurate than creating a faction out of nowhere.

[Renown]

I appreciate it man

Notice what Gandalf said about it though as well.

I've got about 3 books over here which mention the three peoples of the West. The men of Minhiriath, Dunland, and the coastal dwellers.

Two references about the barbaric coastal dweller's, and their ferocity. *not minhiriath*, and one about why no one who goes into Minhiriath's wood's comes out alive its something like " and thence those who enter, do not return for the glades of that land hide an old evil" true- we have no idea what that is reference to, but... We know that ...

a) there were people there, cousins of Dunland.
b) the land was destroyed, and tolkien was fond of the theme that the environment suffered while men prospered evilly.
c) Gandalf believes the land's will be populated again (to the eyes of those who didn't live there)
d) We need a damn faction there, and I'm not adding Dunland (YET) for certain scripting reasons
e) arnor was never truely of the edain, only the numenorian's were. The people who lived there as of a way of life were not 'elf friends'
d) Sauron is under my command and has tainted them under my orders.

The wooded people aren't supposed to be a threat exactly, but more of an added 'negative' factor for Bree. I'm not even convinced Bree should be a faction, i'd be happier with a Hobbit faction (they FOUGHT battles with the same structure they have now, whereas Bree has done NOTHING since the fall of arthedain.) The hobbit's have an actual military structure (even if only called upon in times of need) with the Thane as head... but Bree's got.. a Mayor, and a Sheriff (Shire Reeve).

Remember the faction is currently not how it will be later represented with slow build cycles, and proper representation of units. I do not intend the faction to be able to become powerful, and nor should it be played by someone who wants to conquer the world. This is still a beta.

I understand how you may disagree with it having a place, but I can see it logically as a critical intrepretation of Tolkien's works, and his lack of mention about specific peoples (except when they concern the main events or in asides), and from a historical perspective.

[Renown]

**status update**

Okay, as of now my priorities are on getting a couple new units into the rosters, and fixing the diplomacy a bit more. Specifically in the case of Bree and the Rangers. Once this is done i'm going to get more involved in the balancing.

I've got two frames of thought here, and i'm trying to decide which path to take for unit balancing. I know I'll be decreasing the build amount for LOTS of units (Rangers/Elves/Dwarves/Bree) and increasing the amount for MOST evil factions, while also fiddling with the Time Until Next Unit feature. Once I've got that down to what I feel resembles Lorish, I will begin to really get into making all those units what they should be.

I want you to be able to field a full Elvish stack as Rivendell. But I want that stack to have taken you 100 turns to accumulate... and I want that full stack to be around 6-900 men. Compared to a full stack of Orcs from say Mordor which will usually be between 3600 and 4000 men... and I want that full stack to be recruitable fairly quickly, with very decreased costs.

Uruk's will maintain their costs, but be recruitable extremely fast, to compensate they won't be AS HIGH QUALITY as they currently are. They will be better then militia- low tier units, but against medium-high-elite tier units they will not be as effective.

I'm going to focus on trying to differentiate the two elven cultures too, the silvan and noldor. This will require a little more research on my part.

The Dwarves will inevitably have the strongest infantry, and a moderate amount there of... at a cost of having slower movement ratios (Remember they are Sprinters, not long distance runners.. hah) and high costs.

The Dunedain will have an almost PURE ARCHER army at this point, with probably 10-15 turns per recruitment for each unit, at around 20-50 men per unit. You are going to be HARD PRESSED to defend your borders against hundreds/thousands of orcs that will come from Angmar. Good news is, your ranger's will have good bow skills (same as Ranger's of Itilien, second only to the elves) and superb swordsman/defense ability. Armor is moderately low though. (Elvish armor and skills will both be quite high, i don't want to give the impression that the dunedain were better then the elves, but I do want to make them be able to withstand the enemy armies (if used wisely) and be fairly minimal in numbers. This might mean that on average the unit stats of rangers are higher, but stats don't show the power of quantity. Have slightly inferior stats, but larger numbers would mean that ultimately the elves would have the better units on a 1-1 unit ratio.

Thats one reason for the low movement ratios - I want to be able to give certain faction's speed advantages. I want the Dunedain to be forced to try and ambush their enemy wherever they can. You will need to lure them into ambushes in battles.. etc... and avoid fighting in settlements where the enemy can pin you down.

This is what I'm going for the next release.

[Mikesmith08]

Hey, Id just like to say great mod, but when do you think the next release will be out. I know you've just relaesd this one but you seem to work incredibly fast and I was just wondering.

[Meneldil]

I appreciate it man

Notice what Gandalf said about it though as well.

That's fine with me. In any case, good luck for your project, can't wait to play a more advanced version. I'm currently trying to add new VnVs and ancillaries, but I'm not sure I'd fit as a VnV dev, mostly because my focuse changes quite quickly.

[Ceasar Gubius]

Here's an idea, what if you were to implement the "Kalmar Union" Script into here. Say if you conquer the right regions as the Dunedain Rangers, you can reform the (Numenorean) Kingdom of Arnor. But say if you conquer the region as Bree, you can form a completly ficticious (Northmen) Kingdom of Eriador ! What do you think???

[Renown]

perhaps Ceasar.... but perhaps not.

Only aragorn could have ruled with legitimacy for Arnor and Gondor. No one else is even considered. There really werent enough people for a new kingdom. Conquering 'land' wont change it.

I don't want them to be expandable yet.

But thank you, its something to keep in mind for say... future versions when Gondor gets up there maybe...

Hey, Id just like to say great mod, but when do you think the next release will be out. I know you've just relaesd this one but you seem to work incredibly fast and I was just wondering.

I'll be releasing beta's when I feel I've made signifigant changes to warrant them.

It depends on the bugs I encounter really. I would have liked to have another one out yesterday or today... but I encountered MANY different errors (thanks to formatting) and was unable to complete my work... I suspect I'll have one later tonight or tomorrow. No promises however!

That's fine with me. In any case, good luck for your project, can't wait to play a more advanced version. I'm currently trying to add new VnVs and ancillaries, but I'm not sure I'd fit as a VnV dev, mostly because my focuse changes quite quickly.

Well, I can understand that. Imagine me.. I've not actually PLAYED a game in about a week. Having some fun modding though so dont feel too bad. But I'm always getting torn between balancing, adding units, and trying to get the special map icons working right.

[Arvedui]

I dont think this has been mentioned yet so thought id throw it in, Dale and Esgaroth keep going to war with the Dwarves, they dont seem to be taking each others settlments though :S

[Renown]

I dont think this has been mentioned yet so thought id throw it in, Dale and Esgaroth keep going to war with the Dwarves, they dont seem to be taking each others settlments though :S

interesting do you mean just Erebor?

I've not noticed that in my test games as the bandits.

Every time I've played Erebor goes right to the rebel settlements, sends a small army west, and then bee-lines it for Rhun.

Dale goes right for rebel settlements and also attacks rhun.

Can you tell which faction is declaring war on the other?


**Request!**

I need some folks to go out there, and look for units from other Kingdom's mods that might work well with the Men of Minhiriath/Bree or even Umbar.

I'd do it myself but i have no time to look. Constantly working here.

[Ceasar Gubius]

I found something that would work well with Umbar. What about the Vandal units from Invasios Barbarum II??? Just reskin them a little...

[Erutaron]

Its looking very good Renown! Great job btw, I havn't found many problems other than the rangers, not having units part....if you notice if anyone doesn't have UI card then please tell me and I will start on it right away.