Naval Micromanagement?

**Vae victis** · May 16, 2009, 09:59 AM

Just wondering what I can do to reduce the micromanagement of navies. I have many fleets stationed of my coasts, and I have to fight at least 3 battles to destroy an enemy fleet. With all my fleets and all the enemy fleets, naval battles and refiting are taking up a lot of time and require a lot of micromanagement.

Is there a better way that I can use my fleets to deter AI blockades on my ports? How do I increase the casualties my fleet causes and reduce the losses it takes? Can a coastal campaign be played in this game without using any fleets? (I am going to experiment on that last one in my next campaign)

**CaesarVincens** · May 16, 2009, 11:43 AM

Basically, you need to make large fleets of quinquiremes and better.

**GoldShield Guard** · May 17, 2009, 01:15 PM

Yes, large fleets, but not necessarilly quinqiremes. In my GCS campaigns, there were many many years when all my money in one turn went to naval battles and retraining, against TSE and Indie Greeks. But from a point of time and afterwards, they realised that could not win the naval war and stopped sending ships... I now have 4 fleets with golden-chevroned triremes...

I liked very much all this concept though, because was very realistic...

**CaesarVincens** · May 17, 2009, 01:32 PM

Well, I said quinquiremes only because it seems that nothing but overwhelming odds (10-1 or better) or opposing quinquiremes can sink them.

**Roman Warlord** · May 18, 2009, 01:25 PM

I have heard that reducing the number of men on each ship causes far more sinking to actualy happen.

Try cutting number by half and see what happens.

**Scutarii** · May 18, 2009, 07:00 PM

If you look at what ExRM has done with ship stats, its basically one battles, winner takes all. They've drastically increased attack stats, and reduced defense stats as well as number of soldiers in a ship unit, so battles are more decisive and less ping-pong.

**Vae victis** · June 02, 2009, 04:58 PM

Ok, thanks for the help. The enemy navies only seem to blockade my ports for one turn and then they leave. I found out, through several campaigns, that if I build up a navy to attack them, then the AI will build navies to counter mine or replace its losses. I do like the increased casualties the mod takes on naval battles, however it required me to retrain, and micromanage navies a lot. I've had more success since my op by just ignoring AI navies, even when they blockade. Its still good to have a navy on hand though, to fight rebel navies, whose blockades are mostly permanent.

**Subrosa Florens** · June 03, 2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Scutarii

If you look at what ExRM has done with ship stats, its basically one battles, winner takes all. They've drastically increased attack stats, and reduced defense stats as well as number of soldiers in a ship unit, so battles are more decisive and less ping-pong.

ExRM? I would like to take a look at that. It sounds like something I would like to try in ATW. The way naval warfare becomes a ping pong match bouncing enemy fleets between my own becomes very tiring. Having a single battle and that is it would be nice.

**Vae victis** · June 03, 2009, 12:15 PM

The problem for me all along has been money. I dont have the income to maintain those kind of fleets. This resulted in my few fleets chasing many fleets all around the seas. Fleet retraining was costing me a lot too at up to 500 per damaged ship. Trade partners who decide to do a one turn blockade was also annoying. If I dont share a border with these nations, how easy is it to get back trade rights back and a peace treaty using diplomats?

**Sextus Molestus** · June 03, 2009, 02:24 PM

I think it depends a lot on the faction you're dealing with...Germania comes to mind when I try to think of a faction that is truly taxing to get a ceasefire with. But if you offer a ceasefire, trade rights, and map information, perhaps the faction will come around. It also has something to do with difficulty, I'm sure, as the AI is more aggressive on harder difficulties.

**Vae victis** · June 10, 2009, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Sextus Molestus

I think it depends a lot on the faction you're dealing with...Germania comes to mind when I try to think of a faction that is truly taxing to get a ceasefire with. But if you offer a ceasefire, trade rights, and map information, perhaps the faction will come around. It also has something to do with difficulty, I'm sure, as the AI is more aggressive on harder difficulties.

Lol, good thing there's ~force diplomacy.

XGM and EXRM are my two favorite RTW mods. Is EXRM still activly modded? I would like to try out the new naval system too. The naval system in XGM is fine too. Once I got a handle on my budget, I sent my troubles to the bottom of the sea. I cant wait to see what the naval combat system looks like in RTWII

**Scutarii** · June 03, 2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Subrosa Florens

ExRM? I would like to take a look at that. It sounds like something I would like to try in ATW. The way naval warfare becomes a ping pong match bouncing enemy fleets between my own becomes very tiring. Having a single battle and that is it would be nice.

Yep, its a recent change and it worked really well. Here's the thread from the ExRM sub-forum. ExRM is essentially the most up to date RTR mod out there right now, for a grand campaign. FOE is so... close....

**Scutarii** · June 02, 2009, 06:12 PM

I find naval wars have swing patterns: I'll gain superiority, then lose interest and stop building ships, and the enemy will rebuild and counterattack, repeat ad infinitum. The only purpose for me having an navy is to stop blockades on my own ports for as long as possible, stalling in the swing pattern until the land forces can achieve victory...

**Sextus Molestus** · June 02, 2009, 08:55 PM

I'm not sure what difficulty you play on, but after 50 or so turns into the campaign I usually become pretty financially sound. At this point I will construct a navy for every port I have. These consist of 5 biremes, plus 4 triremes if shipwright, plus 3 quinquiremes if dockyard, plus 2 corvus quinquiremes if temple allows, plus 1 decere if temple allows. This is mainly just for my own personal satisfaction of having complete and total naval superiority (trust me, no one can even dare to blockade you)...I realize that one decere is probably enough to take on every faction's navy single-handedly (hyperboles ftw), but I like the pretty pattern it makes because I'm clinically insane.

I realize this system gets very, very costly over time. I play on Easy, so it's not a problem. In fact, it's not really enough in my current GCS campaign, as I'm trying to keep my coffers under 150k (I'd prefer under 50k but that's impossible for me) and even with this naval system I'm having trouble.

I use this system by sending out the navy to kill any enemy fleet within range of its port; once they have hit the enemy navy so it retreats, my own navy is sent back to the port, and another one is sent out from its port if the enemy navy retreated within its range (if that makes any sense, like I said, clinically insane). Unless the navy has an army or general on board, it's not usually a primary concern of mine, and I wait for them to get within my ports' range.

**DimeBagHo** · June 03, 2009, 12:12 AM

After a certain point in a campaign, when money get's easier, I screen off my ports with lines of ships so that they can't be blockaded. This also helps to keep the peace with the AI because it often starts pointless "wars" by randomly blockading a port.