The gens of Claudius was not patrician even in the 2nd Punic War?

[crazyorc]

In the 2nd Punic War, the famous Marcus Claudius Marcellus was still considered by the senate as a plebian.

[DAVIDE]

Claudii family was divided in 2 branches. One patrician (Claudii Pulchri) and the other one plebian (Claudii Marcelli).

[crazyorc]

thx, and did the family of Marcelli turn to patrician later?

I have got the correct answer on wiki, so no need to reply now.

[DAVIDE]

thx, and did the family of Marcelli turn to patrician later?

Claudii Pulchri were already patricians, before punic wars. Attus Clausus in 470 BC was part of Decemviri Legibus Scribundis. He contributed to write the Duodecim Tabularum Leges, which were the most ancient declarations of roman rights and laws

[Gromovnik]

In the 2nd Punic War, the famous Marcus Claudius Marcellus was still considered by the senate as a plebian.

What do you mean by that? You couldn't just become a patrician, him being a plebeian was nobody's fault. Senate didn't had anything to consider here.

[War&Politics]

If I recall correctly the Claudii (at least one branch) were one of the oldest patrician families of Rome dating to around 500 B.C. when a Sabine family joined Rome and it's head became a senator, thus starting the Claudii.

Ah. Here we go:
"The Patrician Claudii were prominent throughout Republican and Imperial times: The families first Consulship belongs to the year 495 B.C. Likewise from the time of their first Consulship (332 B.C.), the Plebian Claudii Marcelli were an eminent Roman family of the Republic and early Empire. Although these two prominent families bore the same clan name, epigraphic evidence indicates that the name was quite common in various parts of Italy from early times, suggesting that the two Roman families were not actually connected by blood."

And then later
"The Claudii Marcelli can be regarded, then, as having descended from one or more non-Roman persons of that name who migrated to Rome from a Latin community during the fourth century B.C."

Source: A critical history of early Rome by Gary Forsythe, page 161, accessed from Google Books.
http://books.google.co.za/books?pg=R...sq&output=html

[Garrigan]

Well one Claudius made himself technically a plebian, didnt he? (Publius Clodius Pulcher, as he renamed himself)

[War&Politics]

Well one Claudius made himself technically a plebian, didnt he? (Publius Clodius Pulcher, as he renamed himself)

To become a tribune, a position that could only be filled by plebeians, and the tribunes were among the most powerful people in Rome. A few decades later when Augustus reshaped the Republic into an empire he was happy to let the nobles become Consuls and so forth, but the title of tribune he always kept for himself.

[Publius Clodius Pulcher]

To become a tribune, a position that could only be filled by plebeians, and the tribunes were among the most powerful people in Rome. A few decades later when Augustus reshaped the Republic into an empire he was happy to let the nobles become Consuls and so forth, but the title of tribune he always kept for himself.

Yep! Even though in the Republic after Sulla the Tribuneship had lost some of it's power. It's was still PCP's best route to power, and he was able to dominate Rome for a year or 2 as a pleb. (With the help of his mob's of course )

[Garrigan]

Before he was stabbed down on the road built by one of the great ancestors he'd turned his back on by "becoming" a pleb.

Dont you just love irony?

[Garrigan]

I know. I was just pointing out that some Claudii moved between the classes, even if it was for entirely political reasons.