A pictoral study in factional expansion

**saienga** · May 14, 2009, 06:55 PM

This is what I originally intended my campaign map to do, so here we go.

Over the course of my unfolding campaign, I've been coloring in my map template every few years to mark the expansion and contraction of all of the factions. I figure this will be interesting for different reasons to everybody.

Opening pic is 211BC. Pretty standard, I'd lost Messana and Genua.

Next is 209BC. Basically the same story

207BC. Note that Carthage has grabbed a territory. Also note Gaul. While their gained territory is spacially smaller, they have taken 3 territories. I've got Genua back.

9 years lapse. 198BC shows more Gallic expansion. They've taken two more German territories and are walloping the Iberian rebels. Also, note the Greeks. Messana is mine again, but the Greeks are taking a bite out of Dacia.

195BC. In three years, Gaul has taken another German, and the Greeks are gnawing away at Dacia.

191BC. Where we stand now, things are getting interesting. The Gauls and Greeks have got some serious momentum going. Note the Iberian Peninsula is gone to green, as well as a both a Dacian and a German province. The Greeks are hungry, too. They've taken two of Dacia's properties.

Dacia's been rapidly reduced to a four province feather pillow, and Germania is squeezed. I'm after Carthage (notice above that Carthago is in my hands), but I don't know quite where to hit the Greeks and Gauls to slow them down.

The maps have been helpful to track these trends, so I thought I'd share.
PM me if you'd like the blank template. I know I started a thread a ways back, but I figured this was more interesting than a bump.

**Angrychris** · May 14, 2009, 07:46 PM

It would help to indicate that you are roman just for the geographicaly inclined. Good stuff though and pretty interesting. I would attack the greeks from the south upon there mainland and islands if you have the army/navy to support it. The southern mainland is important for taking rich developed territory to refill your coughers. I havnt seen any diplomats in this mod but i would try diplomacy with the germans/dacians for some insurance if diplomats are makeable. Attack the ghauls and creating a war would not be nearly as profitable as if you were to sneak attack the greeks.

**Mont** · May 14, 2009, 09:01 PM

Interesting to see gaul attack the germans, informative maps.

**Ejergard** · May 14, 2009, 09:26 PM

I have pretty much the same development in my campaign, dont forget that before your first screenshot, the Greeks have already taken all the Macedonian settlements in the Balkans! The aggressive expansion of the Gauls and the Greeks is a problem in my opinion. In my campaign Germania has been severely weakened by Gauls taking some 5-6 territories from them, and the Iberian rebels have been wiped out.

One solution to this would be if you as a player would land forces at a very early stage of the campaign near Tarraco and Illyricum to draw the armies from the Gauls and the Greeks to attack you instead of their neighbors. This would be VERY demanding, since you will have a limited economy and forces at disposal, as well as a hard time to reinforce or retrain deployed legions due to the simple fact that they are overseas. Concider that you probably won't need to actually conquer the settlements right away, but just as you land forces on enemy lands, they will get into frenzy-mode and send whatever they can at you! However, actually having the settlement in possesion will help with reinforcements in the long run. And this operation would probably have to start as soon as you have defeated Theophanes and Hannibal, not to allow Gauls and Greeks any room to breath. Note here on Saienga's screens how the 4 provinces of Macedon has already been conquered in the Balkans as early as 211bc...

In my campaign, I started the invasion of Iberia at 192bc and this was clearly too late, already when I landed my forces only 2 of the Iberian rebel provinces still existed, and Gauls were marching hard.
From a historical point of view, taking Tarraco and Illyricum this early in the game is somewhat accurate aswell (give or take a few decades for Illyricum).

A real challenge indeed...

It would be interesting to see if anyone tried this and what the results were... anyone?

**Hesus de bodemloze** · May 15, 2009, 05:34 AM

Ha nice. To see some one took the time to make this.

Opening pic is 211BC. Pretty standard, I'd lost Messana and Genua.

Next is 209BC. Basically the same story

At this time your still save from the major factions that will expand so it would be best to focus first on gaul. Try taking Genua, Mediolanum and Nicea (the one next to Genua on the left side) And maybe if your capable try taking the one next to Nicea as well. This will slow the gauls down a bit.

207BC. Note that Carthage has grabbed a territory. Also note Gaul. While their gained territory is spacially smaller, they have taken 3 territories. I've got Genua back.

The battle for Sicilia isn' t such a big thing if Carthage takes over the island this way you won' t have to fight armies fillet with Spartans on the islands. But for me around this year i normaly own Sicilia. After taking the island i will take Corsica et Sardinia to form a defencive belt around that part of Italie. I remove the legions from the islands and bring them back to Taras. Refill them and stasion them at Tarras.

9 years lapse. 198BC shows more Gallic expansion. They've taken two more German territories and are walloping the Iberian rebels. Also, note the Greeks. Messana is mine again, but the Greeks are taking a bite out of Dacia.

Because of your earslier steps gauls won' t focus on germanie so thy would be save for now. (I hope i havn' t tested all of this

) But wat is inportant is that you move to greece and take like 2 to 3 of there cities to stop there expansion drift. If you do this thy won' t take over Dacia.

195BC. In three years, Gaul has taken another German, and the Greeks are gnawing away at Dacia.

Well Greece is neutraliced so Dacia should be oke the same for germanie i think. The only once still having a big problem are the Iberian rebels because gaul will expand to Iberia. Try sending some legions to Iberia and start attacking gaul settlements over there if you wish to fight the rebels.

I am not sure all of this will work but if some one has time to try it we will know.

**stormer** · May 15, 2009, 10:44 AM

you could also try going and taking the three cities on Cisalpine gaul then the 3 islands as they allow you to strike in all directions.

**Hesus de bodemloze** · May 15, 2009, 11:41 AM

That is not a good idea. And do you know why?

Because zie germans will attack you if you take Darantasia or Patavium.

**Mont** · May 15, 2009, 11:27 PM

I take those cities, cause the notion of not taking them to avoid the germans is a little unatural. If rome can take these cities so can I. They certainly test your mettle those germans but you soon learn to evolve some strategies to deal with them.

**Ejergard** · May 16, 2009, 01:04 AM

And remember that before you have the marian reforms they dont have berzerkers either, so they are practically like Gauls.
I didn't care about this in my v6.4 campaign and it turned out fine, but it was like fighting Gaulx2... This time around I juse recently took these provinces and Germania started attacking me, but this is about 30 years later than in my first campaign, so I am more developed and have more legions in reserve. All this means is that you will have to post more legions in the north, somewhere around 4-6 legions to keep all provinces from Nicaea to Darantasia to Patavium secure, and make sure you can either rotate the legions so you can retrain them, or keep reinforces nearby to replenish casualties. Oh, and there will be more fighting too, every turn, every year

**S u l l a** · May 16, 2009, 03:22 AM

Saienga!

Very intersting topic! + rep

I would like to join in Hesus comments - what if you take some slightly different moves, e.g. I tend to keep Genua and Mediolanum, which in fact slows down Gaul expansion in Iberia and no expansion into Germania.

Also, allowing Greece to maintain presence in Sicily will keep them busy shipping armies to Sicily and making naval invasions into Italy rather than going for Dacia. Btw, I think Macedonia has starting positions between Dacia and Greece ...

Whenever I finish the addon allowing me to play campaign again, then I will look into this as you have done.

Sulla

**lt1956** · May 16, 2009, 04:44 AM

This is why you need to to give pressure on factions. Example if you dont fight gaul they will LOOK for another enemy, the same with Greece. Its best to take one of their provinces and when you do that they dont attack other factions. For 211BC and already Greece too the 3 provinces of Macedon means your playing it easy and not attacking much to kleep them at bay, if you sit back and do nothing the AI will attack other AI. I always put a LITTLE pressure on them by attacking one of their provinces, it diverts their resources.

You can see one of the threads MY campaign and you will notice HOW far in the campaign I am in and how Gaul HASNT yet attacked Germany, Also Carthage is in their place, all I had to do was get a province from Greece and that slowed their expansion because they keep trying to take it back.

In making 7.0 I had to leave some factions as agressive otherwise the player would not get the best out of the campaign.

**Mont** · May 16, 2009, 04:59 AM

Germans don't have Beserkers before the reforms, did not know that, do they know that?

**saienga** · May 16, 2009, 12:03 PM

Seems to be a relatively unified response on how to avoid this kind of thing in the future.

I think, honestly, I'm just reaching the strategic place where I'm comfortable going after Gaul, the Greeks, Carthage, and possibly Germania, too.

I got so gun shy after the opening battles against Hannibal, I spent many years just building my resources and defending the Po. At this point I think I'm going to take a shot at Mediolanium and Patavium. Germania is so reduced that they can't pose too much of a threat. Also, Tergeste belongs to Gaul now, so I don't have to risk a confrontation with the Dacians. Darantasia might be a good idea too.

The only question is if I can manage that fight and the African invasion, too.

**Mont** · May 16, 2009, 03:46 PM

I dont thimk your going to have much trouble, you now only have to contend with the gauls in the North.

Oh I'd be making a move on those mining centres now!

+rep Saienga, +rep Ejergard.

**saienga** · May 24, 2009, 10:06 PM

Update:

It's 187 now, and I've given Gaul a bit of a punch in the face...But they're still on the warpath. Turns out, they're a bit of a paper tiger down in my neck of the woods, but stacked something awful up by Germania. Frisia is now in Gaul's hands.

Something else curious: Parthia is taking shots at Armenia. Look at 191BC in the OP and then 189 and 187 here.

Since I took the 187 screenshot I've also taken Carali.

189

187

Side note: it's been interesting to take legions that I recruited 10 or 12 years ago into the fray in Gaul. Now that they're aggressively attacking me (because I'm taking their cities) I've found out the difference between infantry with two bronze chevrons and a bronze sword and infantry with a silver chevron and a silver sword.

Low experience/equipment infantry has also resulted in my butt getting handed to me in Africa.

I knew these things...but now I know these things.

**Blade0815** · May 28, 2009, 02:39 PM

Any one got an idea why greece isn't attacking thrace? I mean they are pressing north nearly without resistance but they can't take one region from thrace?

But nice study which shows the need to launch a campaign again greece asap and that the gauls need to have infinite ressources(human and money).