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  1. #1
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Pan-Turkism

    Pan-Turkism seeks to unite all Turkic countries into a union which would safeguard their interests against their neighbours.

    Pan-Turkism has its roots in the "Young Turks" who looked to free Turkic peoples from Russian rule after centuries of decline in the Ottoman Empire.

    A map of how such a state would look:



    I think the union would be more based on linguistic ties rather than actualy genetic ties since Turks in Anatolia are pretty European genetically:


    According to Cinnioglu et al, (2004)[28] there are many haplogroups present in Turkey. The majority haplogroups are shared with European and Near Eastern populations as E3b, G, J, I, L, N, K2, R1, which form 94.1% from the Turkish Gene pool and contrast with only a minor share of haplogroups related to Central Asia C, Q, O - 3.4%, India H, R2 - 1.5% and Africa A, E3*, E3a - 1%. Some of the percentages identified were approximately:



    Y chromosome Haplogroup distribution of Turkish people[28]




    • J1=9% - Typical amongst people from the Arabian Peninsula.
    • J2=24% - Typical amongst Near Eastern peoples.
    • R1a=6.9% - Typical of Eastern Europeans
    • I=5.3% - Typical of Central Europeans
    • R1b=14.7% -Typical of Western Europeans
    • G=10.9% - Typical of people from the Caucasus
    • E1b1b=11.3% - Typical amongst populations of the Balkans.
    • N=3.8% - Typical of Siberian populations
    • T=2.5% - Typical of Mediteranean and South Asian populations
    • K=4.5% - Typical of Asian populations.
    • L=4.2% - Typical of Indian Subcontinent populations.
    • Q=1.9% - Typical of Central Asian populations.


    I personally oppose this ideology due to not only these factors but also due to the re-writing of history that comes with it.For one thing, such theories seem to neglect the massive cultural influence of Iranians on Turkic peoples in the past 1000 years.
    Last edited by Babur; May 14, 2009 at 07:57 AM.
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  2. #2
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    This ideology has set impossible goals for itself.

  3. #3
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    This ideology has set impossible goals for itself.
    yeah it would never achieve its goals especially when it threaten the interests of China and Russia.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaghatai Khan View Post
    yeah it would never achieve its goals especially when it threaten the interests of China and Russia.
    You said it there my friend the Russian and the Chinese would never let that happen in a million years
    Know where you're going in life . . . you may already be there!

  5. #5
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    you know what mate....this thread has been very inforamtive for me. Rep for that

    And as for the state....it would be pretty difficult to settle how such state would be ruled...also there are many poor countries in this union. Maybe a EU like union could work fine though. Actually it'd be awesome but I doN't see why no one is working on it.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Chaghatai Khan, although this is really concerning for me, it is not tottaly impossible of happenning...
    SEMPER ALLITER SED IDEM

  7. #7
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    you know what mate....this thread has been very inforamtive for me. Rep for that

    And as for the state....it would be pretty difficult to settle how such state would be ruled...also there are many poor countries in this union. Maybe a EU like union could work fine though. Actually it'd be awesome but I doN't see why no one is working on it.
    thanks

    well all countries used different alphabets for one thing,which would make things difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by paokmam View Post
    Chaghatai Khan, although this is really concerning for me, it is not tottaly impossible of happenning...
    I still doubt it would become a reality though.
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  8. #8
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagatai Khan
    yeah it would never achieve its goals especially when it threaten the interests of China and Russia.
    Plus they've got exclaves in Russia...

  9. #9
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Plus they've got exclaves in Russia...
    Yuh lol well I doubt Putin and Medvedev would want them causing trouble :

    Quote Originally Posted by paokmam View Post
    Well, you're right.
    I wouldn't worry if were you, since it just wouldn't happen unless the Politburo of the PRC disappear overnight as does Putin and Medvedev.
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaghatai Khan View Post
    thanks

    well all countries used different alphabets for one thing,which would make things difficult



    I still doubt it would become a reality though.
    Well, you're right.
    SEMPER ALLITER SED IDEM

  11. #11
    rusina's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    That would be one ugly looking state.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    There are some who go even further and support a pan-turanic superstate which would include all of Russia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, and well any nation that can in even the most absurd ways be linked to the Turks.

    Pan-whatever moments are full of fail.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Leary View Post
    There are some who go even further and support a pan-turanic superstate which would include all of Russia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, and well any nation that can in even the most absurd ways be linked to the Turks.

    Pan-whatever moments are full of fail.
    Everyone knows Estonia and Turkmenistan have so much in common.

  14. #14
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Leary View Post
    There are some who go even further and support a pan-turanic superstate which would include all of Russia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, and well any nation that can in even the most absurd ways be linked to the Turks.

    Pan-whatever moments are full of fail.
    yeah every pan-movement is full of fail whether it is pan-Slavic,pan-Germanic or Pan Turkic.
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  15. #15
    Lord Tomyris's Avatar Cheshire Cat
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Pan-Anglo movement would be good, if only the Imperial Federation had been brought into being.


    Ex-Quaestor of TWC: Resigned 7th May 2004

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Turkic people should go back to Mongolia! jk jk


  17. #17

    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Wow, The turk are so mixed.

  18. #18
    Deep_Red's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    I don´t like that idea. Sure, every people want´s to have its own state.
    But basically: Why would the Kazaks join such a state (for example) when Turkey (in my opinion)
    would lead this union? They are the economically strongest of all "turkic" states so they most
    probably would be the main foundation on which the "Panturkic Union" would be formed...
    And those areas still include massive minorities (Kurds, Russians) and even existing states (Georgia, Cyprus).

    "Every state is founded on violence."
    "Stalin is the grave digger of the revolution."
    -Leon Trotsky


  19. #19
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Of course Turkey would lead the union. We are the strongest and greatest sons of the Turkic people who migrated from the mountain of Mongolia.

  20. #20
    Deep_Red's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Pan-Turkism

    Yeah... Armenia learned of the "strongest" part long ago.
    So there´s someone to deal with the minorities I mentioned, great...
    Last edited by Deep_Red; May 14, 2009 at 11:58 AM.

    "Every state is founded on violence."
    "Stalin is the grave digger of the revolution."
    -Leon Trotsky


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