Reworked Gondor Militia Units (Cavalry Militia released)

[Matthæus]

Hi,
I have started to re-work Gondor's militia units (Gondor Militia, Archer Militia and Gondor Cavalry Militia) that are originally done by King Kong.
I am not implying in any way that King Kong's militia units look bad, but they in my opinion' don't fit well with other of his great units in the mod. This is mostly because of the not adequate vanilla model that they use. I want them to have an distinctive "Gondorian" look (based on the movies) and not to look like Norman knights from 11th century. So this is more a difference in style than in quality.

here's the archives - includes all 3 units (thanks axnsan)
just unpack it in mods/Third_Age

TATW 1.1 :

http://files.filefront.com/reworked+.../fileinfo.html

RC/RR May 25 :

http://files.filefront.com/reworked+.../fileinfo.html

As you see this is mostly an compilation of textures and models from DisgruntledGoat ( 2 body meshes, 2 helmets, heads, chainmail textures, and so on...(with his permission)), and King Kong (helmet model, Pelargir Marine unit (with his permission)), and my own (new sword model, new legs, quivers, 3rd body, and some other textures).



Gondor militia archers version 1.0 download link:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2440


Installation:
Put the files in correct folders* and replace original entry in "battle_models"** with this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

15 militia_archers
1 1
48 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/xMma_lod0.mesh 6400
1
6 sicily
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Mmail_poland.texture
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Mmail_normal.texture
46 unit_sprites/sicily_militia_archers_sprite.spr
1
6 sicily
58 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_diff.texture
58 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_norm.texture 0
1
4 None
16 MTW2_Fast_Bowman
20 MTW2_Non_Shield_Fast 1
19 MTW2_Bowman_Primary 1
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

*the files should be placed like this (inside your mtw2 folder)

.../mods/Third_Age/data/unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/xMma_lod0.mesh
.../mods/Third_Age/data/unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/texture/en_vmail_Mmail_poland.texture
.../mods/Third_Age/data/unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/texture/en_vmail_Mmail_normal.texture
.../mods/Third_Age/data/unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_diff.texture
.../mods/Third_Age/data/unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_norm.texture 0

**
"battle_models" modeldb file is located here:
(your mtw2 folder)...\mods\Third_Age\data\unit_models
open it with notepad



Reworked Gondor Swordsmen Militia version 1.0 download link:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2444

install info:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

you need to put all files in the correct folders and then make changes to model_db file. you need to do this:

red lines are changed part of model_db (battle models). replace original lines in your model_db with these:

15 dismounted_kofm
1 1
51 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/ed_Nofm_lod0.mesh 6400
1
6 sicily
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Nmail_poland.texture
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Nmail_normal.texture
46 unit_sprites/sicily_dismounted_kofm_sprite.spr
1
6 sicily
57 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Nofm_poland_diff.texture
57 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Nofm_poland_norm.texture 0
1
4 None
14 MTW2_Swordsman 0
2
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary
14 fs_test_shield 0
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

Militia Swordsmen new (1.1) version released:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2445

-difference between this and original release is the size of the shield. this version has 15% smaller shields.

this contain mesh only. it needs textures from previous download version




Gondor Cavalry Militia

Download link:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2446


this contains mesh only. it needs textures from Gondor Swordsmen Militia and Gondor militia archers

red lines are changed part of model_db (battle models). replace original lines in your model_db with these:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

4 kofm
1 1
48 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/Hofm_lod0.mesh 6400
1
6 sicily
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Nmail_poland.texture
72 unit_models/_Units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/en_vmail_Nmail_normal.texture
35 unit_sprites/sicily_kofm_sprite.spr
1
6 sicily
58 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_diff.texture
58 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Muard_poland_norm.texture 0
1
5 Horse
13 MTW2_HR_Lance
13 MTW2_HR_Sword 2
21 MTW2_HR_Lance_Primary
14 fs_test_shield 2
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary
14 fs_test_shield
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

have fun !

PS
Most of what you see is actual work of DisgruntledGoat and King Kong just arranged in different way. So don't praise me too much but give respect to original authors who made this wonderful mod. Thank you all TATW team !


OLD INFORMATION

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As a base I used Pelargir Marine unit, and then started to changed stuff. This is what I have made so far:



*helmet (second picture) is an cheaper variants of an typical Gondor helmet, it has that distinctive shape, but not so well crafted like ones for more expensive units. That's there is no winged ornaments.
*3rdr body will be fully covered in gambeson (over chainmail) or I will make some kind of dark robe with white tree symbol.
*some new shields are in plans

more pictures:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Swordsman Militia is in plans for next week. It won't be very different from archers (they will have that leather vambraces).

[maxi90]

those look very nice. eager to see the final results. +rep

[Mithrandir]

Militia units shouldn't wear the white tree on their chests, that was reserved for the Citadel Guard.

[aNarion.]

Militia units shouldn't wear the white tree on their chests, that was reserved for the Citadel Guard.

Almost every unit in the roster has a white tree symbol on their chests including the original militias, so why not?

I think these units suits the faction much better then the other militas does, but i guess its up to KK if he wants this.

[Mithrandir]

Almost every unit in the roster has a white tree symbol on their chests including the original militias, so why not?

I don't want any units to wear the white tree, other than the Citadel Guard, Fountain Guard and Ithilien Rangers. I know it's probably not going to happen, though.

[Matthæus]

well, King Kong will decide the fate of this little modification, and until he does we can discuss this a bit further.

I don't want any units to wear the white tree, other than the Citadel Guard, Fountain Guard and Ithilien Rangers. I know it's probably not going to happen, though.

It can be removed, I am not an expert and I will respect opinions of people who know more about this subject. So what you suggest to put there instead of white tree ? some other symbol ?

[Hellenikon]

I really like your work here mate, i hope KK agrees and you can continue the project.

[Mithrandir]

It can be removed, I am not an expert and I will respect opinions of people who know more about this subject. So what you suggest to put there instead of white tree ? some other symbol ?

Anything but the white tree.

[Minohtar]

Militia units shouldn't wear the white tree on their chests, that was reserved for the Citadel Guard.

Hi Mithrandir
That's not quite right; it's the crown and stars, Elendil's tokens, that are reserved for the Citadel Guard.

The description of Aragorn's standard:
"...upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count."

and the Guard themselves:

"Upon the black surcoats were embroidered in white a tree blossoming like snow beneath a silver crown and many-pointed stars. This was the livery of the heirs of Elendil, and none wore it now in all Gondor, save the Guards of the Citadel."

White Tree = Gondor. White Tree, High Crown, and Stars = Kings of Gondor.

Happy gaming
Minohtar

[Mithrandir]

Hi Mithrandir
That's not quite right; it's the crown and stars, Elendil's tokens, that are reserved for the Citadel Guard.

The description of Aragorn's standard:
"...upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count."

and the Guard themselves:

"Upon the black surcoats were embroidered in white a tree blossoming like snow beneath a silver crown and many-pointed stars. This was the livery of the heirs of Elendil, and none wore it now in all Gondor, save the Guards of the Citadel."

White Tree = Gondor. White Tree, High Crown, and Stars = Kings of Gondor.

Happy gaming
Minohtar

That's interesting, but is there any explicit mention of regular Gondorian troops wearing the tree?

[OutlawVR]

The only thing that bugs me is that these are suppose to be militia units, not professional units.

The original KK models are good, but I always thought they looked to professional and too heavily armored for a militia unit.
These new ones take it a step even further to make them look more professional and armored.

I would love to see a Militia mod that got rid of their chainmail and replace it with gambeson or leather.

Maybe have levels of militia, such as initiate militia all the way to senior militia. The higher the levels you go the more armored and professional they look.

[Oddball_E8]

The only thing that bugs me is that these are suppose to be militia units, not professional units.

The original KK models are good, but I always thought they looked to professional and too heavily armored for a militia unit.
These new ones take it a step even further to make them look more professional and armored.

I would love to see a Militia mod that got rid of their chainmail and replace it with gambeson or leather.

Maybe have levels of militia, such as initiate militia all the way to senior militia. The higher the levels you go the more armored and professional they look.

Or maby you could mix the outfits of the militia... some have chainmail (maby their father was in the regular army, or something) but the rest have leather or maby just cloth...

[King Kong]

Hi matko,

maybe I'll make the same announcement like DG and I will not allow sub-mods which change models of my factions without my permission, no matter how good or bad they are. I don't think I have to explain the reasons here.

Also, this unit is only a mix between my Pelargir marines and DG's 1066 units, so there is not much creativity in it.
So, before you want to release those units, please ask for my permission first. Like I said I'm not sure if I want to see such mods or not.

[Matthæus]

maybe I'll make the same announcement like DG and I will not allow sub-mods which change models of my factions without my permission, no matter how good or bad they are. I don't think I have to explain the reasons here.

I asked DG prior to posting on public forums. he said he is OK with that. And sorry, my bad, I tough that only part of your units included here is the Gondorian helmet model/texture (and assumed that Pelargir marines are his work). So thought that only I need DG's specific permission since he wrote that announcement pinned in the subforum.

Also, this unit is only a mix between my Pelargir marines and DG's 1066 units, so there is not much creativity in it.

"a mix between my Pelargir marines and DG's 1066 units" yes, that is true I said it myself. I wanted it to look similar to that units.

So, before you want to release those units, please ask for my permission first. Like I said I'm not sure if I want to see such mods or not.

I was wrong, and I'm sorry that I have not asked you before. I will send PM to you to clear this.

[Lap]

maybe I'll make the same announcement like DG and I will not allow sub-mods which change models of my factions without my permission, no matter how good or bad they are.

This is why I suggested there just be one sticky with a list of all the team members and who, if anyone is allowing their work to be modified freely, who needs to be asked, and who is forbidding all requests.

People will typically see TATW almost as a separate game. As if it was a single product they can mod, not a compilation of the work of many individual authors.

How this is working right now with permission being need for submods specifically is pretty much unheard of in the modding scene. I have never seen it operate like this before for any submods, for any game/mod in over ten years. There's going to be a lot of confusion about this since it's going against the norm. Many modders would definitely, 100% of the time ask for permission to use/modify someone elses material if it is not from the source mod they were working from (let's say the Immortal Nazgul submod or Stainless Steel). These same modders might not assume they need permission from the actual source mod (TATW), since that is a rarity among games.

Making a clear announcement, separate from the general one of TWCenter, would clarify that this is not like professional companies that generally allow modding of their source material so long as it is not sold.

I kinda like the new helm, but the white tree seems out of place.

[xor0]

Hi matko,

maybe I'll make the same announcement like DG and I will not allow sub-mods which change models of my factions without my permission, no matter how good or bad they are. I don't think I have to explain the reasons here.

Also, this unit is only a mix between my Pelargir marines and DG's 1066 units, so there is not much creativity in it.
So, before you want to release those units, please ask for my permission first. Like I said I'm not sure if I want to see such mods or not.

Where are you going to explain the reasons then?

Setting yourself up as a judge of creativity and utility seems like a dangerous move which will only hurt the TA mod in the long run. A number of people seem to think that the 'uncreative' blending of two existing units makes a unit better than the present one, with reasoned arguments in support.

If a submodder's work is bad it will be forgotten, if it's good it should be released. The decision of good or bad is taken over time by the community, not by any one individual. Just be glad CA never took a decision like yours.

[Lap]

Where are you going to explain the reasons then?

Setting yourself up as a judge of creativity and utility seems like a dangerous move which will only hurt the TA mod in the long run. A number of people seem to think that the 'uncreative' blending of two existing units makes a unit better than the present one, with reasoned arguments in support.

If a submodder's work is bad it will be forgotten, if it's good it should be released. The decision of good or bad is taken over time by the community, not by any one individual. Just be glad CA never took a decision like yours.

Although your basic point might be valid in that the community will definitely filter out what's good and bad, your rude demeanor is very inappropriate considering that the developers have given us TATW for free. At least show a little respect.

[ISA Gunner]

I think they should still have the typical Gondorian shield that spearmen and swordsmen use. Looks better than the buckler they have now.

[Matthæus]

I like you like it .
You know, KK is right on some aspects when he said that "not much creativity" part. I will try to include more of my own stuff (body textures, shields and weapons) in future versions (If there will be any).

[AmiR TimuR]

matko rulez