HPV jab, 13 yr olds can decide?

[Amorphos]

HPV jab, 13 yr olds can decide?

My daughter is 14 and has decided to go ahead with the jab even though there are potential severe health issues. She went ahead mainly due to peer pressure in my opinion, although I was not entirely against it my wife was.

What I don’t like about it is that govt can kinda go behind our backs and jab my duaghter with anything they think is ok. Strange, she cant have sex until 16, drive until 17, nor drink til she’s 18, yet apparently she can make decision that could be life threatening.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/sear...hrase=hpv++jab

Apparently boys may have it soon too!

Is it as bad as the scaremonger’s make out?

Thoughts about it anyone?

Btw I put this in the ethics section as it is both political and ethical imo.

[Phier]

A dentist can't do a filling on a under 18 year old without explicit parent permission but in many states the same girl could get an abortion without parental consent.

Its a bit wacky.

On the other hand I think the HPV vaccine is a good thing.

[Bovril]

The treatment is approved by NICE, which, despite the never ending hype, is pretty careful. Yes, they make mistakes, but on the whole, I think they are pretty reliable. This strikes me as being a bit like the MMR scare. I suspect the health scares are being manipulated by people who think the jab encourages under age sex (or just sex in general) and their tactics are disingenuous.

All in all, one has to weigh up the risks of getting cervical cancer as a result of HPV at some point in one's life against scare stories backed up by no scientific evidence.

[wearycelt]

You know, as one who is not so old that I have forgotten what it means to be a minor, I think letting adolescents make vaccine decisions is a good idea. Unfortunately, some parents, don't care to vaccinate, or don't believe in vaccines, that put their kids at risk. And that puts everyone without a current vaccine at risk. Offering kids some recourse to get a vaccine is in the interest of the state, regardless of the interests of your family.

[Amorphos]

I suspect the health scares are being manipulated by people who think the jab encourages under age sex

My daughters friends all seam to think having the vaccine gives them the go ahead to have sex, that doesn’t mean they will but it switches the green light on - so to say. they think of it as a kinda cure all, strange as no-one has said it is, but some kids just think like that.

Equally just about everyone belittles her for not having it, this peer pressure I am against for sure, even if I don’t mind the vaccine.

I agree it is like the MMR scare, however a girl who live just around the corner has her face paralised at the moment [muscular probably], so when the problems get so close the become more real. Equally both genital warts and cervical cancer can be cured by other means.

There is also the booster jab which wont be free 6 years afterwards.

__________

some parents, don't care to vaccinate, or don't believe in vaccines, that put their kids at risk. And that puts everyone without a current vaccine at risk.

Usually I agree with them. Secondly you would have to vaccinate the world before the ‘putting at risk’ factor comes into it really.
I hate the state having the say, I don’t care if its in there interests, we know from past experience that the state is not to be trusted.

[Bovril]

My daughters friends all seam to think having the vaccine gives them the go ahead to have sex, that doesn’t mean they will but it switches the green light on - so to say. they think of it as a kinda cure all, strange as no-one has said it is, but some kids just think like that.

I understand your concern on this one. The trouble is, I don't think this jab is going to change anyone's sexual behaviour much. I don't think there are many people who are going to say to themselves, well I would have had sex, but I haven't had the jab so I won't, especially teens. I don't know your daughter, so I won't comment on your situation, but from a general point of view, I think not giving kids jabs, condoms, sex education or whatever as a way of trying to stop them having sex is dangerous. But as I say, in your specific situation this might not be relevant.

Equally both genital warts and cervical cancer can be cured by other means.

There is also the booster jab which wont be free 6 years afterwards.

Prevention is better than a cure, as the saying goes.
By the time of the booster your daughter will be 20 and probably in a good position to deal with it herself.

I don't want to tell you your concerns are unfounded, or you're wrong, because I think neither are true. I certainly don't want to go down the route of calling you tyranical! However, I don't think your very legitimate concerns mean that she shouldn't get the jab.

I guess from thepoint of view of parental involvement, its difficult, because although children should be under parental care, the jabs are given by medical proffesionals, and they are people who, as part of their job, have a duty of care which overlaps somewhat with the parental one. It's a tricky question.

[Amorphos]

If not, and given your daughter's "equal say" in your household, why does it bother you?

Equal say does not me she has the whole say!

Is it that if you had vehemently opposed it, she still could have done it?

Yes! it’s the fact that the nurse done it without our consent that I object to mostly. I don’t think they are given all the facts, very few actually.

And whereas a vaccine poses no societal threat

Some people have died and some disabled [it has 1300 potential side affects].

_________________

I don't think there are many people who are going to say to themselves, well I would have had sex, but I haven't had the jab so I won't, especially teens.

Agreed. However there are [I have heard some say so] people who feel they can once they have had the jab. Obviously there are many other factors involved, if a girl is in love they could well think its ok as they have less chance of getting the desease, its just a ‘yes factor’.

I don't know your daughter, so I won't comment on your situation, but from a general point of view, I think not giving kids jabs, condoms, sex education or whatever as a way of trying to stop them having sex is dangerous. But as I say, in your specific situation this might not be relevant.

Agreed. It is not no, usually I would say yes with no problem, we are very open about stuff like that. Things tend to go in opposites ~ I was a punk she is a ballerina lols.
It’s the choice thing mainly + the strength of the potential problems.

Prevention is better than a cure

And if the prevention is almost as likely to be the cause of illness? If I add up the percentages + that at her age she is very unlikely to get cancer, then cure is better than prevention.

I guess from thepoint of view of parental involvement, its difficult, because although children should be under parental care, the jabs are given by medical proffesionals, and they are people who, as part of their job, have a duty of care which overlaps somewhat with the parental one. It's a tricky question.

It is, but my generation grew up with thalidomide kids! y’know govt can get it wrong and don’t have the interests of individuals at heart, they are also easily swayed by politics etc.

[Bovril]

And if the prevention is almost as likely to be the cause of illness? If I add up the percentages + that at her age she is very unlikely to get cancer, then cure is better than prevention.

I think this call is hard to make. The connection between the illnesses assosiated with the jabs andthe jabs themselves has yet to be shown, despite some quite thorough investigations. There is always the possibility some are psychosomatic: paralysis can be. And givent he number of people who have had the jab, it's inevitable some people will get ill directly after having it without the jab being a factor. I don't like to do so, but I am going to trust others on this one. And the people I'm going to trust are the bodies that use experts to assess the safety of treatment, such as NICE, the European Medicines Agency, the FDA and so on, all of whom have aproved the treatment.

It is, but my generation grew up with thalidomide kids! y’know govt can get it wrong and don’t have the interests of individuals at heart, they are also easily swayed by politics etc.

I couldn't agree with you more. None the less, I think the bodies I mentioned above are independent enough and reputable enough to be worth trusting even if that means sometimes you'll be let down.

[wearycelt]

And if the prevention is almost as likely to be the cause of illness? If I add up the percentages + that at her age she is very unlikely to get cancer, then cure is better than prevention.

There is no cure for HPV. Your daughter is most likely to get it in her adolescense. Her likelyhood of getting cancer does not have any relationship to this equation. If she gets HPV she her likelyhood of getting cancer increases. Cervical cancer, specifically, which in the early stages is often asymptomatic thus increasing its lethality.

I realize thalidomide, the 70's swine flu vac, and several others demonstrate the unfortunate reality of medical mistakes.

However, human error, and even human evils, are not good reasons to shun medicine. To do so, would bring us back to the place of superstitious voodoo and inexplicable deaths despite available cures or vaccines.

[ELITEOFKINGWARMAN8]

No. In some cases, the government needs to but out and let the families decide on what to do.

[wearycelt]

The government is butting out. Butting in, would be requiring the vaccine, as is often the case in the US (though, with parental permission, the child can "opt out.") I agree, the state cannot be trusted. However, I also know that kids die of awful diseases and suffer unimaginable pain due to the beliefs of their parents. Shouldn't they have some rights as well? Especially, in the case of a simple vaccine?

I would agree with you, that it would be wrong for the state to force a personal health decision. However, shouldnt the state also provide an unintrusive means by which to moderate the views of parents? Frankly, if the OP and his wife are against his daughter getting the shot, its up to them, to disincentivize that choice, or to punish the choice as they see fit.

BTW: anyone who went to college, knows what i mean when i say, it is far better to let kids start making real decisions earlier rather than let them have their autonomy come in a landslide, after their 16th b-day.

[Amorphos]

My daughter does have a say, we all have an equal say in our house even my 10 yr old boys. She is undecided and confused hence was easily talked around by the nurse, without our permission ~ which is annoying to say the least.

[wearycelt]

Annoying, certainly. Obnoxious even. But wrong..... i don't think so. I'm sure that the nurse blinded your daughter with science and minimized the risks but, did she lie to your daughter? If not, and given your daughter's "equal say" in your household, why does it bother you? If she was given facts, on both sides, (the other side being, yours or perhaps your wife's) and made a decision... what's your issue?

Is it that if you had vehemently opposed it, she still could have done it? That somewhat undermines your claim of "equal say."

Again, it is one thing for the state to force. It is another thing entirely, for the state to allow. Free society, is allowance. And whereas a vaccine poses no societal threat, unlike alcohol, drugs, or driving.... i find it difficult to rationalize forcing parental consent.

[Ummon]

Allegedly, many therapeutic/diagnostic presidiums are the product of the doctor's fear/habit/cost-benefit calculations more than the patient's need. Generally, trusting one's physician is though a good idea.

[Bovril]

Allegedly, many therapeutic/diagnostic presidiums are the product of the doctor's fear/habit/cost-benefit calculations more than the patient's need. Generally, trusting one's physician is though a good idea.

No doubt. We don't expect our physicians to be omniscient and omnibenevolnet. Or at least we shouldn't, though we probably often do. Its all a question of being a good assesor of sources. The scaremongers are to medicine what 9/11 truthers are to politics - well intentioned, but dabbling in specialities beyond their understanding and mistrusting of authority in a counterproductive and simplistic manner.

[Ummon]

I suspect it is more like a problem with the outline of health systems: they tend to encourage waste of resources, and lawsuits against physicians, which obviously alters the process of cure.

Research suggests that whenever specific attention is not devoted to the process of diagnosis and prescription, there may arise peculiar incidents derived from misconceptions about the mechanism of decision-making itself, and limits in formation: to the point that sometimes the quality of decisions is not superior to that ensured by randomness. It's a complex matter, overall, beyond this specific forum's purpose.

[conon394]

It is, but my generation grew up with thalidomide kids! y’know govt can get it wrong and don’t have the interests of individuals at heart, they are also easily swayed by politics etc.

But without polio, or mass death, deformity or illness form how many other illnesses as the result of vaccination. Some planes crash, lots of people die each year on the freeway do you not fly and not drive?

For a sexually transmitted vector I would say waiting until you are 30 is silly - its teens - stupid, gullible, inexperienced and liable to peer pressure who are at risk, not in general experienced adults.

[conon394]

Agreed. However there are [I have heard some say so] people who feel they can once they have had the jab. Obviously there are many other factors involved, if a girl is in love they could well think its ok as they have less chance of getting the desease, its just a ‘yes factor’.

Did you think that when she got the heb b vaccine hey she going to think sex or drug use is safe?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

If your going to read the nonsense in the daily mail, have fun being scared of everything.

[Amorphos]

If your going to read the nonsense in the daily mail, have fun being scared of everything.

Heh, well my missus had some sites up on her pc I just grabbed a link quickly. Believe me when it comes to my children’s welfare I care a bit more than that.

Thanks for your replies chaps.