The next patch balance changes

[Whatacad]

Regarding increased accuracy for artillery, does this also mean they'll aim for the center? Maybe others have a different experience, but artillery always seems to aim at an extreme flank of whatever unit it's aiming at.

[Lord Nova]

Morale

- Charge morale bonus reduced from 10 to 4.
- Recent casualties, extended casualties and total casualties morale penalties increased slightly for higher percentages.
- Rear and flank exposed morale penalties increased.

Not many changes, but combined with the slight decrease to unit morale I think it is working out nicely. But this is one area I want to put a lot of time into. Currently in 1.2 units stay too long in melee at times, are pretty much impossible to break on the charge and flank effects probably aren't pronounced enough. But I do not want to push things too far the other way so keeping an eye on these changes.

You want a quick effective way of tweaking the moral with out changing the already established unit moral?

I find the best way is to make total casualties a multiple of 8 or 7. Ex
Total_Casualties_penalty 20 = -8
Total_Casualties_penalty 40= -16
Total_Casualties_penalty 60 = -24
Total_Casualties_penalty 80 = -32
Total_Casualties_penalty 90 = -40

This gave me the affect I was looking for in that units break around 50% with little to no moral bonuses. A multiple of 7 or 6 would probably be better if you're looking for units to break around 75%-85% casualties. Just my 2 cents on that

Fatigue

- Fatigue penalty for melee reduced from 18 per tick to 12.
- Running fatigue penalty for heavy and light cavalry reduced from -3/-2 to -2/-1.

Not many changes here, but just designed to make cavalry more useful once it has been in one engagement, currently units who engage in melee get exhausted far too quickly. I want to look at fatigue more for the next patch, but undecided on a course of action yet.

Maybe look into doubling the reload fatigue for infantry and artillery. Right now it's nearly impossible to get these units to tire from shooting. Melee fatigue is not proportional to shooting fatigue which is why the problem of tired cavalry is coming up more.

[Jack Lusted]

You want a quick effective way of tweaking the moral with out changing the already established unit moral?

I find the best way is to make total casualties a multiple of 8 or 7. Ex
Total_Casualties_penalty 20 = -8
Total_Casualties_penalty 40= -16
Total_Casualties_penalty 60 = -24
Total_Casualties_penalty 80 = -32
Total_Casualties_penalty 90 = -40

This gave me the affect I was looking for in that units break around 50% with little to no moral bonuses. A multiple of 7 or 6 would probably be better if you're looking for units to break around 75%-85% casualties. Just my 2 cents.

That's very extreme and basically removes the impact of a lot of other morale effects as that will be far and away the largest. I will not be doing something like that.

[Kinjo]

This is for patch 1.3? if this is a major patch then most will expect their saved games not to work however if this is a hotfix then yes I agree it should work for saved games.

[FearofNC]

id like to add my support for more maps and a map editor, as well as the ability to download a map to players joining a host who has it.

id also like to add support to the request of a main chat foyer and fixes to light infantry.

[Achilleslastand]

id like to add my support for more maps and a map editor, as well as the ability to download a map to players joining a host who has it.

id also like to add support to the request of a main chat foyer and fixes to light infantry.

FearofNC..........I think our requests are falling on deaf ears..........

[Jack Lusted]

This is for patch 1.3? if this is a major patch then most will expect their saved games not to work however if this is a hotfix then yes I agree it should work for saved games.

No it's for 1.3. But we still want to maintain save game compatability, so no changes to unit size will be happening in a patch.

[Kinjo]

Thanks Jack its never going to be addressed via patches, maybe we will get lucky with expansions.

[Achilleslastand]

What about some new maps or gameplay modes......maybe even a chat lobby?

[Lupu]

Could you in some way make dragoons mobile infantry that can be used as cavalry instead of dismountable cavalry?

[Lord Karhedron]

Could you in some way make dragoons mobile infantry that can be used as cavalry instead of dismountable cavalry?

Going back a bit here.. But in relation to dragoons.

While i understand their melee skill needs to be kept low, so as to ensure they are not overly effective cavalry... And if anything i would take them even lower than they are currently, to make them essentially pursuit cavalry if people really want to use them as cav rather than mobile inf... an attack of 6 or 7 may be suitable...

But would it perhaps be possible to give them a 'trait' linked into the fact that they have sabres, that allows them to be more effective in melee when dismounted? Similar to how bayonet level increases melee skill for infantry - sabre gives them melee bonus, so they can be poor quality cavalry (as they should be, else what's the point of real cav), without being utter failures at infantry also: i.e. able to be utterly stomped by line inf in melee, despite pitting sabre against musket. Perhaps increasing their melee up to 10-11ish when dismounted.

This, i feel, would allow them to be used as intended - moved swiftly to a particular point of interest on the battlefield, dismounted, and hopefully with the benefits of cover and a choice firing position, being able to hold their own at least briefly against other infantry in a shoot out, and also in melee - with only their lmited numbers being their true handicap as infantrymen.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

just look at darthmod in the hosted modifications forum.

why does he only create a topic on land unit balance what of one on naval or economics?

[Lupu]

Going back a bit here.. But in relation to dragoons.

While i understand their melee skill needs to be kept low, so as to ensure they are not overly effective cavalry... And if anything i would take them even lower than they are currently, to make them essentially pursuit cavalry if people really want to use them as cav rather than mobile inf... an attack of 6 or 7 may be suitable...

But would it perhaps be possible to give them a 'trait' linked into the fact that they have sabres, that allows them to be more effective in melee when dismounted? Similar to how bayonet level increases melee skill for infantry - sabre gives them melee bonus, so they can be poor quality cavalry (as they should be, else what's the point of real cav), without being utter failures at infantry also: i.e. able to be utterly stomped by line inf in melee, despite pitting sabre against musket. Perhaps increasing their melee up to 10-11ish when dismounted.

This, i feel, would allow them to be used as intended - moved swiftly to a particular point of interest on the battlefield, dismounted, and hopefully with the benefits of cover and a choice firing position, being able to hold their own at least briefly against other infantry in a shoot out, and also in melee - with only their lmited numbers being their true handicap as infantrymen.

I think it is possible to change their stats while dismounted, the cavalry formations and sqare do that, that way they could be poor cavlry and OK infantry.

[Jack Lusted]

Could you in some way make dragoons mobile infantry that can be used as cavalry instead of dismountable cavalry?

No I'm not going to be changing the fundamental way Dragoons function.

[Lupu]

Ok, but right now they are just cavalry that you can dismount, but what does it help? The way dragoons work now ANY cavalry should be able to do, every horseman can get off his horse, there is no reason to dismount dragoons, and the shooting is useless compared to how they function as cavalry, so if you balance them they will just become overpriced mellee cavalry or useless infantry, dragoons are supposed to be movile infantry, not cavalry that has the ability every other unit should have too.

[Hekko]

Ok, but right now they are just cavalry that you can dismount, but what does it help? The way dragoons work now ANY cavalry should be able to do, every horseman can get off his horse, there is no reason to dismount dragoons, and the shooting is useless compared to how they function as cavalry, so if you balance them they will just become overpriced mellee cavalry or useless infantry, dragoons are supposed to be movile infantry, not cavalry that has the ability every other unit should have too.

I don't see why you would you would want to dismount any cavalry unit to be honest. But since the origin of dragoons were mounted infatry it makes sense that they can dismount.

[Lupu]

I don't see why you would you would want to dismount any cavalry unit to be honest. But since the origin of dragoons were mounted infatry it makes sense that they can dismount.

Because it's possible, and as dragoons are now, they are simply a cav unit that can dismount(takes hours) to shoot, but gets completely useless for it, game mechanics are telling me that you will have a choice: overpriced cavalry or useless infantry, the mounting is so slow the "mobility" of dragoons is taken out, coupled with the fact that they are more effective on horseback than on foot, but overpriced because of the "abilities" that don't help a thing.

[Jack Lusted]

Ok, but right now they are just cavalry that you can dismount, but what does it help? The way dragoons work now ANY cavalry should be able to do, every horseman can get off his horse, there is no reason to dismount dragoons, and the shooting is useless compared to how they function as cavalry, so if you balance them they will just become overpriced mellee cavalry or useless infantry, dragoons are supposed to be movile infantry, not cavalry that has the ability every other unit should have too.

Well other cavalry can't dismount, and their speed allows them to quickly move to areas, admittedly probably much more useful in campaign on maps with buildings due to the lack of an MP map with buildings on it. The Dragoons strength is that they can operate as cavalry or infantry, but not as good as pure cavalry or pure infantry.

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And please everyone, we are well aware of bugs and the many, many wishlists people have posted on MP. This thread is about the upcoming balance changes which is my area, can we please not derail it with discussion of other things.

[Stymie Jackson]

And please everyone, we are well aware of bugs and the many, many wishlists people have posted on MP. This thread is about the upcoming balance changes which is my area, can we please not derail it with discussion of other things.

Sorry about the bug requests. Let me sum up some balance issues (my opinion):

1) Austria Wind. Jaegers. Too little ammo.
2) US Minutemen. Too little ammo again.
3) Lancers seem inferior to other light cavalry. Die too easily, and trample damage on regular light cavalry seems just as effective as lancer charges.
4) Lt. Dragoons, due to unit size, are superior to most other light cavalry.
5) Stealth advancers shouldn't have stakes (move while hidden). Normal light infantry can fill this role.
6) Pointless units in MP. Certainly abilities, which take unit cost, are pointless in MP. See french missile cavalry and light infantry. They are more expensive, for no MP benefit, then the vanilla versions.
7) Howitzers are too accurate, cannon are not. I do not understand improving howitzer's accuracy as they already demolish any other artillery in range of them.
8) Improving carriage HP. Yes, it's needed. But the problem is when limbered an artillery piece, its horses, and crew count as a SINGLE unit. I've had light infantry units totally fail to harm a moving artillery peice when hammering it with shots, yet if unlimbered (and you'd think the crew could use the gun as shelter) the crew drop like flies to the same unit.
9) Russian line suck, cossacks 'ok'.
10) Puckles need more range. 200 would make them pretty useful when firing through some shield light infantry. 150 means they get sniped way to easily.
11) Mortars still too accurate.
12) Cannister shot, shrapnel shot and other antipersonel round should be much less effective vs artillery pieces. Round shot should be the way to go. I get the feeling your balance changes will move us in this direction, but we will need a LOT of HP balancing with artillery pieces.
13) Dutch need some 'spice'. Maybe given them a stoner regiment that uses smoke as a weapon (just kidding! but perhaps give them colonial levies of some sort?)

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

well i got some things to put on the table.

1. When your in square formation and a cavalry charges you the formation gets pushed inside and cavalry seem to think they are invincable but on the 18th century battlefield horses would never charge into firing ranks and ready bayonets so is there a way you can make horses fear square formations so they won't attack it.

2. Bullets seem too accurate and not that deadly when they hit. there is a reason they shot volleys all at once, so that at least some of them hit somthing. i also noticed when having at unit with a maxium range of 70 and one with 50 lets say they both would have the same accuracy at the maxium distance even tho the enemy is clearly a bigger target at 50.

3. There was this one thread that said they wanted cavalrymen to get up and fight once there horse got killed from under them, or the horse run away once the cavalryman got shot off the horse

4. Well this is more on an AI point but the AI usaully send there general near the line and they usaully die easily maybe to have the generals unit a lower morale because geenrals back then were chickens compared to antiquity.

5. maybe more artillary pieces or artillary to be changed based on the size of your units like if you put the unit size the largest you get how ever many more artillary pieces.