recruitment pools

**carth** · May 12, 2009, 03:28 AM

hey all!

i instalt the mod and i have to say it's some good stuff

i really like the factions and the appearance of the game. but i do not like the slow recruitment pools in some city's/castles sometimes it takes 4 turns before i can make a single unit (that isnt even that great). is there a way that i can turn it off? so it will be normal again.. or maybe i can change some files/data so the pools are 2 turns rather then 4?

and another question since i dont want to open a new thread for this.
why did the makers of this game have chosen for low attack points for the units? especially for archers, they dont kill at all anymore, or do i use them wrong?

all answers are aprecciated

**Caesar Clivus** · May 12, 2009, 03:31 AM

i instalt the mod and i have to say it's some good stuff

i really like the factions and the appearance of the game. but i do not like the slow recruitment pools in some city's/castles sometimes it takes 4 turns before i can make a single unit (that isnt even that great).

It was done to better balance army composition, especially for the AI.

Originally Posted by carth

and another question since i dont want to open a new thread for this.
why did the makers of this game have chosen for low attack points for the units? especially for archers, they dont kill at all anymore, or do i use them wrong?

Stainless Steel uses the RealCombat system of stats that lowers attack values for all units across the board to give longer, more realistic values. The values are based on extensive research into how much energy medieval weapons delivered and how much energy armour could absorb.

**carth** · May 12, 2009, 03:37 AM

okay thanks for your quick answer! +rep (also for this good mod)

okay you guys really had a lot of work about this i guess

so a maceman with 1 attack with effective against armour get's how much attack agaisnt armour? i couldnt find it in export_descr_unit

im curious about this a time now,

and peasant archers with only 2 missile... they cant kill anything right? whats the point of making them? or you use them to shoot the enemy's peasant archers?

**Caesar Clivus** · May 12, 2009, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by carth

okay you guys really had a lot of work about this i guess

so a maceman with 1 attack with effective against armour get's how much attack agaisnt armour? i couldnt find it in export_descr_unit

The "effective against armour" trait halves the enemy's armour. So, for example, a unit of macemen attacking some knights with an amour value of 14, the game will calculate damage as if the knights only had 7 armour.

and peasant archers with only 2 missile... they cant kill anything right? whats the point of making them? or you use them to shoot the enemy's peasant archers?

Just because a unit has a lower attack value than it's target's defense value doesn't mean it cant kill them. The math isn't that simple.

**carth** · May 12, 2009, 04:04 AM

hehe i know that

but it just seems so little.. and in battle they only kill 1 guy out of a unit in 1 or 2 volley's.. i just seems so little.. or does it?

so effective agaisnt armour is real nice huh

still 1 attack.. im too used to vanilla

**Caesar Clivus** · May 12, 2009, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by carth

im too used to vanilla

That will change It does take a bit of getting used to but it's a much better system than vanilla. Much less arcade-y

**virtu** · May 14, 2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus

Just because a unit has a lower attack value than it's target's defense value doesn't mean it cant kill them. The math isn't that simple.

Is there a guide out there that explains how TW math works?

**nopasties** · May 14, 2009, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by virtu

Is there a guide out there that explains how TW math works?

I can't get in any detail but I believe the modders apply commonly understood principals of physics such as force and such, I'm personally dumb with the stuff but they incorporated and applied how resistant different kinds of armour worked against different weapons, like chain mail has vulnerabilities against arrows but is highly effective against blunt instruments like swords and such, there is a whole bunch of other things to consider but really there is no manual out there, the modders took their understanding of medieval warfare and tried to represent it in this game as well as possible. The deeper your understanding of this period is, the deeper your respect for the work they have done will be

**Gorrrrrn** · May 12, 2009, 05:13 AM

peasant archers are not totally useless anyway - especially in early era campaigns when facing units with little or no armour.

As the game progresses and more armour becomes available you'll need to upgrade your archers / crossbowmen in response.

**Navajo Joe** · May 12, 2009, 05:26 AM

One thing for sure is that Real Recruitment/Real Combat truly make this game for me more interesting, I just could not play without them. I am currently playing as OKT and find my AOR troops such as Turkopoles and Javelin Men, very effective against enemy armour. Especially my Javelin Men, I disable Fire at Will and wait for Enemy General to come into firing range and then launch those Javelins.

**carth** · May 12, 2009, 06:40 AM

i will give it a shot

**Pengo** · May 12, 2009, 06:40 AM

If you can, run the peasant archers around to the enemy rear while they are melee fighting and let loose. Not always possible but with the longer melee times possible. There is less armour calculated if you shoot their rear and it increases the chance they will rout. I always run my archers everywhere, to the best of my knowledge getting them puffed doesn't ruin their shooting.

**nopasties** · May 12, 2009, 02:51 PM

[quote=carth;5167529]hey all!

i instalt the mod and i have to say it's some good stuff

i really like the factions and the appearance of the game. but i do not like the slow recruitment pools in some city's/castles sometimes it takes 4 turns before i can make a single unit (that isnt even that great). is there a way that i can turn it off? so it will be normal again.. or maybe i can change some files/data so the pools are 2 turns rather then 4?

point blank and the other modders really did a great job with this mod and worked out so many aspects beyond vanilla it's truly laudable. For my own use I changed certain files like the export_decr_buildings,
if you do things like change the recruitment slots for the larger settlements which are the same settlemnents that build your elite units that take 4-7 turns like for castles I changed it from 3->4 a citadel from 6->9, a huge city from 6->9. Personally I don't think a city like Constantinople should have the recruitment ability of 5-6 towns. Point Blank worked all the math out but for personal interest this is a simple way to allow the real recruitment aspect that adds a realistic feel but also allows you to recruit in more emergency situtations and won't ruin all the tedious balance the modders put in the mod

**carth** · May 13, 2009, 03:19 AM

great thank you! all most i admit.. im starting to get the hang of it

**virtu** · May 15, 2009, 06:04 AM

yeah, I took a look at the RC manual, but this is not exactly what I mean, I mean when a unit hits the other what makes it kill it, most of the units have HP of 1 and a lot of defense , does each hit reduce defense by its value..or what?

the unit balance seems totally cool and realistic to me and the effort the modders put into this is clearly visible.

**carth** · May 15, 2009, 08:18 AM

i always thought it was something like : an attack value of 4 agaisnt a defence of 7 = 35% kill.. attack 4 against defence 8 = 28% kill etc etc...and if you have mupli hp it just loses 1 hp..

**nopasties** · May 15, 2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by virtu

yeah, I took a look at the RC manual, but this is not exactly what I mean, I mean when a unit hits the other what makes it kill it, most of the units have HP of 1 and a lot of defense , does each hit reduce defense by its value..or what?

the unit balance seems totally cool and realistic to me and the effort the modders put into this is clearly visible.

it's a little more complex and like I said I'm dumb with this stuff Point Blank does most of the math either do a search of past questions similar to what you're asking or ask in their forum
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=197224