To Catch a Predator & Vigilantism

[Exarch]

To those unaware of what the dateline show 'to catch a predator' entails:


now i think it's a great thing that sexual predators are caught and apprehended before the child is harmed (tho i'm truly shocked by how many ppl there are out there who'd actually go through with this) but the point here is that
Dateline uses the vigilante group perverted-justice to hunt down and even entrap these predators, but i couldnt help but feel uncomfortable about the whole nature of this show, as this guy puts it so well:

who does perverted justice, an vigilante group, answer to?
How do you feel about vigilantes (of the non-underwear-on-the-outside type)

Discuss

[Thanatos]

It depends. Are they reporting people? Or are they going around and taking people down?

[Exarch]

It depends. Are they reporting people? Or are they going around and taking people down?

all of the above, yet it seems that justice and community welfare is but one aspect of the whole prism.

think of it as like a tripod; there's dateline with chris hansen, there;s the local police and then tere's perverted justice.
they all benefit; the cops get help in taking down suspected predators, dateline gets massive ratings and perverted justice gets $$$, paid as a consultant to dateline.

but who does perverted justice asnwer to?
the cops answer to the commissioner; hansen answer to his bosses....but perverted justice?
i dunno.

[Bovril]

I find it deeply disturbing that paedophilia is treated as a marketable commodity by news and entertainment outlets. It's true to an extent of all crime, but particularly true of those involving paedophilia, that any rational discussion of the subject is drowned out by shrill rhetoric and cynical stunts. The fact that most editors and producers have little interest in discussing rational solutions to crime, and particularly child molestation, should be beyond doubt to any thoughtfull observer, in my opinion.

[Exarch]

I find it deeply disturbing that paedophilia is treated as a marketable commodity by news and entertainment outlets. It's true to an extent of all crime, but particularly true of those involving paedophilia, that any rational discussion of the subject is drowned out by shrill rhetoric and cynical stunts. The fact that most editors and producers have little interest in discussing rational solutions to crime, and particularly child molestation, should be beyond doubt to any thoughtfull observer, in my opinion.

excelent point
and on that note

[Phier]

I find it deeply disturbing that paedophilia is treated as a marketable commodity by news and entertainment outlets. It's true to an extent of all crime, but particularly true of those involving paedophilia, that any rational discussion of the subject is drowned out by shrill rhetoric and cynical stunts. The fact that most editors and producers have little interest in discussing rational solutions to crime, and particularly child molestation, should be beyond doubt to any thoughtfull observer, in my opinion.

It is a marketable commodity, or more, it is not pedophilia which is marketable but the catching of pedophiles which is marketable. If you want to have a rational discussion on pedophilia you have it at a psychiatric convention, this is just catching them attempting to molest children and instead being the 'victims' themselves. A sort of schadenfreude coupled with the idea that you don't need to feel pity for the victim at all.

So really who cares if the producers don't wish to have a rational discussion about child molestation, or what makes a 40 year old want to stick his fingers and other parts in a 8 year old.

It serves to enthrall the masses, but it also does inform. There are still parents who allow their minor children unfettered internet access completely oblivious to what is on it (though I"m sure that number will go down every year) and it does bring awareness to the issue to the general public.

[Bovril]

It is a marketable commodity, or more, it is not pedophilia which is marketable but the catching of pedophiles which is marketable.

This is just one aspect of the paedophilia industry. I sometimes start to think what exactly it is about paedophilia that sells, but unfortunately I find it hard to keep my mind on the subject. It's a disturbing subject.

If you want to have a rational discussion on pedophilia you have it at a psychiatric convention, this is just catching them attempting to molest children and instead being the 'victims' themselves. A sort of schadenfreude coupled with the idea that you don't need to feel pity for the victim at all.

An informed public is a sine qua non of functional democracy. Consequently exposure to what comes out of conferences and the research of psychologists, psychiatrists, sociologists, criminologists and so on is necessary for us to deal with the task of reducing child abuse seriously.

So really who cares if the producers don't wish to have a rational discussion about child molestation, or what makes a 40 year old want to stick his fingers and other parts in a 8 year old.

The rational discussion that needs to be has is about reducing child abuse, not technical details about the nature of paedophilia. I see no attempts made at informed discussion of this issue despite the shrill protestations of the mainstream media and their insistence that they care deeply about the subject (generalisation, but a useful and pretty solid one I think).

It serves to enthrall the masses, but it also does inform. There are still parents who allow their minor children unfettered internet access completely oblivious to what is on it (though I"m sure that number will go down every year) and it does bring awareness to the issue to the general public.

Any usefull information given by such a program is so tangential as to be almost irrelivent. Besides, child abuse is far more likely to be comitted by family members or friends of the family than strangers from the internet. So there's a strong argument that such programming misinforms.

[Denny Crane!]

This is something I've railed against for a long time. This is a show that plays to the fear and hate of peadophiles, sustaining the demonisation of these unfortunate people who are sick instead of a proper focus on harm reduction and treatments or study.

[Exarch]

This is something I've railed against for a long time. This is a show that plays to the fear and hate of peadophiles, sustaining the demonisation of these unfortunate people who are sick instead of a proper focus on harm reduction and treatments or study.

indeed
i mean after every case of sch crimes happening, all the politicians do is attempt to profit from it by being as brutal as thei opponents can be whcih does nothing to solve the mental poblems of paedophilia

[AqD]

indeed
i mean after every case of sch crimes happening, all the politicians do is attempt to profit from it by being as brutal as thei opponents can be whcih does nothing to solve the mental poblems of paedophilia

Why should we care if those bastards have mental problems or not? You could say all criminals have some kind of mental problems (and I'm not joking on this!) But it is not our problems. It's their own problems.

They solve it themselves, or we solve it for them, by removing them from this society, often by a bullet on their head. If they cannot behave like a human, why should we treat them like human, eh?

[Exarch]

Why should we care if those bastards have mental problems or not? You could say all criminals have some kind of mental problems (and I'm not joking on this!) But it is not our problems. It's their own problems.

They solve it themselves, or we solve it for them, by removing them from this society, often by a bullet on their head. If they cannot behave like a human, why should we treat them like human, eh?

because it's only treating the symptoms of the disease, not the cause

and please remmeber, most child abusers were themselves abused.

trying to outdo each other on the most cruelest and most unusual punishments accomplishes nothing. treating victims of child abuse and paedophile with therapy accomplishes everything.
with that in mind, also add inthe death penalty for the msot severe violent crimes agaisnt children

[AqD]

because it's only treating the symptoms of the disease, not the cause

and please remmeber, most child abusers were themselves abused.

trying to outdo each other on the most cruelest and most unusual punishments accomplishes nothing. treating victims of child abuse and paedophile with therapy accomplishes everything.

It applies to other crimes as well. So we should have therapy for violent criminals too? robbers? all rapists? theives? To what end?

And why should we waste our time and money on those wicked animals, rather than those jobless but mentally-health guys who would not try to rape a little girl?

A bullet solves everything. If it doesn't, 10 bullets! Child abuse would be gone when all child abusers are dead. If it isn't, then therapy wouldn't be able to stop it either.

[Portuguese Rebel]

This is something I've railed against for a long time. This is a show that plays to the fear and hate of peadophiles, sustaining the demonisation of these unfortunate people who are sick instead of a proper focus on harm reduction and treatments or study.

Question is, would you speak out for them in public? That's the issue. Anyone caught defending them is immediately associated with them. Soon "he's a pedo too" follows. No politic on earth would defend them.

[Denny Crane!]

Question is, would you speak out for them in public? That's the issue. Anyone caught defending them is immediately associated with them. Soon "he's a pedo too" follows. No politic on earth would defend them.

Yes actually. I was once caught in a group of people who were rabbiting on about death to pedophiles and how evil they were. First question I asked was whether they would rape a child if it wasn't against the law?

Que angry outrage and aggression. I simply replied with if they think paedophiles are evil then they are assuming the prerequisite of free will. That it is a choice that is normal to human beings but we simply choose not to do it because of cultural norms and morality, when in fact I and I would hope my peers don't rape children simply because the idea is completely abhorrent and totally undesirable with or without the law. This in turn suggests that people who do have those inclinations have a problem with their brain chemistry and as such aren't evil. A danger to society perhaps and thus in some cases do require incarceration but evil, I suspect they are not and I also suspect and hope that with study and advances in medicine (concerning genetic/psychological/environmental causes) the reality of paedophilia could be errradicted and I think that is surely a better solution than simply killing them out of hand.

Paused briefly for breath....

On another note simply taking the attitude that they are evil and deserve death means that study would not take place and the idea of rehabilitation or prevention isn't prevalent YOU* are condeming future children to abuse and I find that pretty ignorant and immoral......

So yeah I'll say it in public, to people who aren't receptive. I do enjoy a rant though.

*the people displaying the attitude towards paedophillia.

[Phier]

This in turn suggests that people who do have those inclinations have a problem with their brain chemistry and as such aren't evil.

All of human feelings, wants, drives, lusts, and loves are just brain chemistry.

A serial killer has 'brain' issues, a saint has 'brain' issues.

The fact that their brain chemistry is what makes them evil does not make them any less evil.

[Denny Crane!]

All of human feelings, wants, drives, lusts, and loves are just brain chemistry.

A serial killer has 'brain' issues, a saint has 'brain' issues.

The fact that their brain chemistry is what makes them evil does not make them any less evil.

I don't believe there is such a thing as evil.

Yes serial killers have brain issues, serious ones. There is actually something seriously wrong, absolutely positively abnormal with a serial killers brain. Or do you not become a serial killer simply because you choose not to morally?

[Richard]

This is something I've railed against for a long time. This is a show that plays to the fear and hate of peadophiles, sustaining the demonisation of these unfortunate people who are sick instead of a proper focus on harm reduction and treatments or study.

+rep

I still believe they should be locked away, monitered etc depending on the stage of their sentence, but they do seem to be unfairly treated in proportion to their crimes. It's like "BURN AND TORTURE THE GUY WHO EXPOSED HIMSELF TO THE SMALL GIRL" and "oh btw there goes the guy who shot 3 people dead, yeah he can go to jail, he's a bad man, who won the soccer?"

[Manco]

I sincerely loathe the makers of that program. I'm actually amazed the networks are allowing that program on air.


As an aside, I've always wondered since their bait is actually an adult that looks quite young, hasn't any of their suspects just claimed he knew it was an adult and that he was under the impression they were roleplaying?
If you look at it, they never talked with a minor, they didn't went to a minor's house and didn't have sex with one, it was all an adult pretending to be a minor.

[Rich86]

I think it's wrong of them to turn this into entertainment. We're basically watching people who clearly have something wrong with them get 'busted' just so that we can go thank God I'M not like that!!!

I think these people need serious HELP - not their problems exposed on national television for a cheap shot at some high viewing figures. Also it's very easy for us to sit here and judge other people from the comfort of our own homes - knowing someone isn't going to kick in the door and film US and document OUR problems. How many people watch this show are quite frankly; fat and have issues regarding food - should we go and film them in McDonalds? Ambush them and discuss their problems?

If you look at it, they never talked with a minor, they didn't went to a minor's house and didn't have sex with one, it was all an adult pretending to be a minor.

Yes but in their 'internet chats' this particular adult continually claimed to be 13-14!

[Phier]

This is just one aspect of the paedophilia industry. I sometimes start to think what exactly it is about paedophilia that sells, but unfortunately I find it hard to keep my mind on the subject. It's a disturbing subject.

What other aspects are there to the 'pedophilia industry?' Outside of the sexual offender data bases (something I do think is poorly done) I don't see where the rest of the industry is.



An informed public is a sine qua non of functional democracy. Consequently exposure to what comes out of conferences and the research of psychologists, psychiatrists, sociologists, criminologists and so on is necessary for us to deal with the task of reducing child abuse seriously.

Thats not the job of TV shows. Most of the public are lucky they know who the current president in the US is, and maybe pick out their state on a map, with help. I personally don't watch much of anything on network TV because its moronic, but I'll defend their right to stay moronic.

The rational discussion that needs to be has is about reducing child abuse, not technical details about the nature of paedophilia. I see no attempts made at informed discussion of this issue despite the shrill protestations of the mainstream media and their insistence that they care deeply about the subject (generalisation, but a useful and pretty solid one I think).

I think most of the public wants to see pedophiles executed. They only care about the children hurt, not the pedophile himself (note we don't care if its a herself). I actually have sympathy for a pedophile if they truly wish they could stop but I would assume such are not the ones prowling the internet looking for a baby booty call.

Any usefull information given by such a program is so tangential as to be almost irrelivent. Besides, child abuse is far more likely to be comitted by family members or friends of the family than strangers from the internet. So there's a strong argument that such programming misinforms.

Who is more likely to commit it doesn't really matter, and thats obviously exemplified in these cases. These were strangers trying to do it, it happens every day, and the show doesn't say that family members don't abuse, it only focuses on the internet preditors.

I think it's wrong of them to turn this into entertainment. We're basically watching people who clearly have something wrong with them get 'busted' just so that we can go thank God I'M not like that!!!

I think these people need serious HELP - not their problems exposed on national television for a cheap shot at some high viewing figures. Also it's very easy for us to sit here and judge other people from the comfort of our own homes - knowing someone isn't going to kick in the door and film US and document OUR problems. How many people watch this show are quite frankly; fat and have issues regarding food - should we go and film them in McDonalds? Ambush them and discuss their problems?

I'm not sure how you compare internet gamer fatties to child molesters, its not even close to the same. Sure its mean to ambush some fat guy and poke fun at him for being fat. So what. These are people LOOKING for kids on the internet, and trying to get them to meet them in order to molest them. Its not like some hot 18 year old who looks 15 knocked on their door in a bikini offering to have sex with them and then said GOT YA! on TV.