mid game getting ridiculous

[Angroth]

hi there.

first off, i really appreciate the mod and like the style of play it makes possible. yet there is one thing bothering me as i played my spqr campaign for two weeks now (i play in h/m). it is 198 BC and the AI has very adcanced buildings at its hands just like me. i invaded parts of gaul already and made my border on darantasia in the alpes and massilia in the west, when i realized i had to fight carthage if i ever wanted marian reforms to happen. so my invasion of north africa is running ok, but as i said the AI has advanced technology available now and has started to recruit armies mainly consisting of chosen axe/swordsmen for gaul and germania as well as sacred bands for carthage. as a result the battles become extremely tough (which is good in general) yet the only reason for this is my enemy building far superior elite units. i wouldnt mind that if it would be in reasonable numbers, and not like 5 - 8 of these units in one army. it doesnt sound realistic to me that the enemy only fields complete elite armies while i try to keep it realistic.
this can be understood as a complaint by me, and i think it needs a little attention.
if this annoyance is related to me playing on campaign difficulty on hard just forget about it, but if not - here you go, my thoughts about it. :p

[Gauliez]

My feeling about it is that fights in SPQR can easily become out of hand. I mean, if you aren't cautious a little bit, you can easily get hardly slapped in the face. Not like in vanilla where you could always make up for a strategic mistake by being brillant on field.

Here, you have to really carefully plan an invasion, to always wonder if you are strong enough to take over the next city, or rather turtle a bit a build up your strength. So not only do you need to be awesome on field, but you have to be brilliant as a tactician too and plan carefully your troops movement.

For example, I think you made a tactical mistake by getting a border with Germans too early. I know it because I had to restart a campaign due to this. So, it is up to you to see if you're strong enough to cope with them yet, or if you'd better load a previous game before getting a border a border. Anyhow, if you're cautious enough tactically and a pretty decent fighter, that game is entirely doable on M/M following houserules. And don't worry, you're not even close to mid-game yet

[Angroth]

i know im not close to mid game but i didnt know how to name it differently, as well as im playing two weeks now so i felt it being named mid game pretty fitting. ;p

and yes that "tactical mistake" was due to the fact i read the requirements for marian reforms AFTERWARDS so i stopped my invasion of gaul territory. darantasia valley is easy to hold as well as massalia river in the west and patavium valley in the east. im not even saying i have too much of a problem, i lost 4 battles in all of these years. my concern is the fact elite units should be rare in armies and not the main body. even the sacred band description says they build the center of an army. now okay they still build the center ... a very huge center of 8 units. nice. its an annoying feeling to see the enemy building more on an effectiveness oriented perspective while i build armies on houserules to keep it realistic and fun. its like i play the game right and the ai does not.

[Raglan]

remember that this mod was made by LT for LTs own enjoyment (thus the mod reflects the way he likes to play)

i personally prefer this aspect as it is far more enjoyable than having an elite army vs peasants as could quite easierly happen in vanilla

also SPQR has a very well establised reputation for difficulty for a good reason - and this is just one of the reasons

i don't think that its anything to do with h/m - although maybe they progressed a little faster than usual - but as i said i actually like this aspect as it is more of a challenge, and makes you (as any good general should) have a plan B (go cry maybe -lol)

the difficulty of the battles means that you will take casulties - thus there is lots of money availiable to replace them

[saienga]

i personally prefer this aspect as it is far more enjoyable than having an elite army vs peasants as could quite easierly happen in vanilla

This!

It's easy to forget the times when a full stack would assault in Vanilla, and I'd get the field, gleefully expecting a monstrous melee, only to find a mish-mash of skirmishing cavalry and crap troops.

It's great, for me, to be able to expect difficult foes, and be occasionally relieved when an attacker turns out to have only nominal infantry and no cavalry at all.

[Angroth]

i fear the point i was aiming to make is not clear yet.
i do not complain about the difficulty. i really love tough battles and close turnarounds and the tactics that are made able with this mod. but i do not like that the AI has to build mostly units clearly stated as elite en masse. personally, i always thought of elite units or regiments as being rare, as they are the best of the best, standing above the crowd of regular troops. now my enemies begin to only field armies of mostly elite units. maybe i would not have had a problem with that when those units were not stated as elite, but chosen warriors as well as sacred bands are the elite. yet this elite is used as if its being just another brick in the wall of what makes the whole army. they should not be.
there are plenty of other units to fill the regular ranks, while having chosen warriors or sacred bands just making the elite core of the line. especially for carthages this wouldnt mean too much of a change since poeni infantry is almost as good as sacred bands. yet i mostly see sacred bands, which are elite, while poeni infantry is high standard. i wouldnt mind seeing lots of high standard units as those would reflect the state of progress in the game. but pure elite armies are not my thing, they just mean you would need less tactic and could just run over the enemy (which is why i am using houserules, yet it would be nice if the ai would have something like that as well).

[Ejergard]

I understand what you mean Angroth, and you have a point. However, without changing the recruitsystem (dont know if this is possible) as well as changing the stats of many of the basic troops, this is probably the only solution to make certain factions able to put up a good fight

[lt1956]

Ok this is caused by GAMESTYLE, when the AI is getting hit hard it will tend to build more elite units, also by playing on Hard you are giving the AI more money (more money means more for elite units) The mod is designed for M/M. I hate to suggest this but I think you need to restart your campaign on M/M and then play based on House rules or atleast most of them, you will find the AI will behave MUCH better based on how you expand and attack. I find when I go more offensive the AI produces MORE elite units than normal, but if I back off they slow down. The AI in the campaign AI is SET to build BALANCED armies unless you changed this in the Descr_Strat.txt file you should be find. The AI will balance their armies Out IF you give them time. I have a feeling you might have blitz a little? if so that can cause different AI responses. I hope this answers your Question?

Lt1956

[Knight of Heaven]

Thats is true i playing m/m and i dont find that problem i see plenty of swordsman and chosen as well a few spear warbands(less them in the beginnig) but still find. even in german armies i see axeman and chosen as well. pretty mixed units in AI armies.

[Samariten]

That is why you should play on M/M in SPQR. Read the faq in here and you get a pretty good idea how to play the mod.

Also a tip is always remember to secure your northern borders with enough legions before launching an assault against africa. The longer and bigger you get the harder of more difficult it gets to keep your empire mmmm fun isnt it

[Angroth]

hmmm!

yeah well i thought of restarting on m/m too.
though i didnt blitz anywhere, i am playing with the scripts and i always starve my enemies anyway. i dont know if its money related with the gauls, i did not launch an offensive on them for at least 10 years now. they just keep coming in force, only their armies have changed from balanced to elite. this might be because i always managed to fend them off, as you suggest, lt. i dont blitz carthage as well, although it may be arguable whats called blitzing. i launched attacks down the coastline from the city of carthage to the egyptian border in the last 2 years with 6 legions, defeating a lot of carthagian armies that were built with plenty of sacred bands right from the start.

maybe its best to restart, i dont know. i just can say i wasnt aggressive against gauls for ten years now, only to those who tainted my claimed lands ;p

[Gauliez]

though i didnt blitz anywhere, i am playing with the scripts and i always starve my enemies anyway.

I will agree with Angros on this one.

In my campaign too, I didn't get the feeling I was blitzing the game. I hardly ever attacked a town I was sieging and just went along at my pace with the script on. Though, when I look at where I am now, and where people usually are, it is true I expanded way faster. And when I listen to players experience, I probably encountered weaker ennemy resistance too, due to my fast and aggressive tactics.

So, noticing this, I guess I will restart a new campaign once Sulla's add-on is released, and this time really take my time. Like attacking a town with 2 or 3 legions each time, one to siege and 2 to defend around, things like this. That seems to be the true pace for SPQR, so I hope I will enjoy it as much (and even more) than my actual campaign.

[Raglan]

what year is it?

[Angroth]

should be 197 bc now

[Raglan]

then by most standards you have rushed (i lost my save a while ago, but in that campaign it was 192 before i left italy)

i know, this is a game to take SLOW

[Angroth]

well i dont know. i had enough money to sport so many legions and enough money to build whatever i want in all cities, i had every building queue full to the limit a few years ago. what else to do but expand? infrastructure was constantly building up, and my armies were not busy. hmhm okay maybe i should reapproach the campaign really...

[Raglan]

yes i know it can be odd sometimes the pace of the game, it is best (in my opinion - there are others who will tell you different) to let italy fully develop before advancing outwards

the game is balanced (i believe) to (roughly) support 1 legion per city plus a little left over, so if you have to much money recruit more men - it will work out fine once you do start expanding and need to replace losses

[SirGejor]

AVE!

General even in the way M/M the losses continued to be many. In spite of being the most nice and balanced way to play the mod SPQR.
The one that you need to have in mind, is to administer your Empire strategically thinking about the future of your Roman Nation.
To have a lot of legions don't mean that you will have success warranty. But you makes the possible to have strong and complete legions.

Develop their cities and yours trades before any campaign that if it turns disastrous more the front.

Take a look in this post where I pass some tips of as I developed my empire:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=256297&page=2

And remember, the fun of playing SPQR and the one that him if differs of the others, it is that you incorporates a Roman Emperor with the mission of building, to conquer and to administer a nation in a hard way of course, also very nice and balanced.

Restart your campaign General in mode M/M and enjoy!! Good Luck!

[Finch]

follow the houserules too its fun

[SirGejor]

follow the houserules too its fun

Is True.!