Understanding the Arab-Israeli Conflict

[Blaze86420]

I don't give a why.
Fact is, there was no Palestinian state.
They had no sovereignity over Palestine.
And Arab nationalism in Palestine was non-existent until the early 20th century, meaning they didn't even make any claims to the land or requested autonomy. If they did, there are no records of it. Meaning they didn't.
Living conditions have to do with the why of the immigration. It's the main reason they immigrated in the first place.
And yes, tell me please, pre-48, what distinct culture did Arabs in Palestine had? Something that was different from other Arabs in the Middle East.
Even to this day the differences are minor at best, so don't me.





I didn't say empty. I said the population was very small until the 19th century when immigration began. It started out small, and it ended up with massive Arab immigrations during the 20th century. This is a fact. This is history. Go read up on it.
And i know 3% was Jewish. You ignored my post completely. The author ignored the reasons behind it and he ignored everything prior to the middle of the 19th century or so.



Oh man. I love this hillarious map. Always brought up by the likes of you thinking it proves your point. Let me shoot it down for you.
The 1946 Map is an outright lie. I'll assume that whoever made this map wasn't stupid enough to think the Palestinians had a state over the green areas. I'll assume he means land ownership in which his estimation of Jewish ownership is fairly accurate but that map makes the false assumption that every piece of land that wasn't owned by Jews was owned by Arabs. I call BS on that, given how around 60% of the land in Palestine prior to 48 was state owned. Another couple of percents were owned by Brits privately, or Churches and other christian establishments.
Then you have around 10% of the land owned by Jews, the rest by Arab landlords.
There are British documents from that time that confirm this, like Survey of Palestine.
Again, go read up on it.

Then you have the accurate 47 map which depicts the partition plan followed by the 49-67 map omitting the fact that the Arabs are the ones who had declared war and rejected the plan and that Israel legally annexed the Gaililee and it's an internationally recognized Israeli land.
The pre-67 Map also makes it seem as if Palestinians had sovereignity over the WB and Gaza. It ommits the fact that both were illegaly annexed by Jordan and Egypt respectively.

The 2000 Map might be correct - i don't know the layout of settlements in the WB, but it does look extremely exxagerated. I don't think that 40,000 Jews or so could literally hold more than half of the WB. Seems like BS to me, and given the questionable BS presented by the other maps i wouldn't be surprised.

But anyway of course it ommits everything after 2000 because Israel had disenageged from Gaza and a couple of settlements in the WB as well.

Pathetic map. Go do your homework and bring me some better, more informed sources than BS maps like that.

How is having a similar culture to that of neighbouring arab nations a justification for the foundation of israel? And for god's sake, stop with the immigration thing: it only takes common sence to figure out that palestine would be inhabited by arabs like every other region in the middle east. Heck we live everywhere! even the arabian desert is home to the bediouns. why the hell would palestine ( which is very hospitable compared to other regions in the arab world) remain empty for centuries in spite of arab dominance in the region? im sick of hearing the land without a people crap. And besides palestine, every other modern nation in the arab world didnt exist prior to the fall of caliphates, does that give you the right to settle and conquer those too? give me a break.

Now about the map, you hardly shot it down. lets start with the first one: arab owned or not, according to you only a tiny percentage was owned by jews. the point of the first one was to show how much land the jews have gained over the years, not how much we owned 60 years ago.

The second one was accurate according to you, so well jump to the third one: whether it was part of jordan and egypt or not, it was still owned by the palestinians. you seem to miss the point again, the people dont need to be ruling themselves to claim a land as their own.

And finally the fourth one: believe it or not, you do controll most of the west bank. you seem to forget about your settlers eh? with your government encouraging this, it seems far from bs to me. hardly see how this map is pathetic as all of them seem to be accurate even to you.

And calm down a bit. This topic is allready full of hatred.

[Bovril]

Palestine was barely habited until the 19th century when mass Arab immigration began.

I heard this remarked upon (and argued against) fairly frequently. I'd be interested to know how such conclusions have been reached. Do you have links to any research on this, or the names of any books?

[Roman Rapper]

Good OP. I myself am often baffled by the fact that so many people seem to buy into the Zionist lie that they are entitled to steal the land of other people simply by virtue of the fact that they are jewish.
The truth is that Zionist Israel is a racist, murdering, thieving, pathetic little country and the sooner the Israelis are evicted from the land they have stolen the better it will be for all of us.

[Blaze86420]

Good OP. I myself am often baffled by the fact that so many people seem to buy into the Zionist lie that they are entitled to steal the land of other people simply by virtue of the fact that they are jewish.
The truth is that Zionist Israel is a racist, murdering, thieving, pathetic little country and the sooner the Israelis are evicted from the land they have stolen the better it will be for all of us.

thats exactly what i think.
most pro-palestinian people on this forum would rather have the conflict end with both countries co-existing.

Id rather have this conflict continue for an eternity than have their crimes go unpunished and our land stolen.

@Dr. Croccer, this is exactly what the author was talking about. people tend to come up with complex reasons for the conflict. Nationalism, religion, anti-semitism are usually used as justification for the conflict, when its as simple as the palestinians wanting to hold on to their own land and the israelies taking it by force. Simple.

[Noble Savage]

Okay I had to edit and delete a few posts here.Please let's not have any promotion of "nuking" countries/certain people .Also if anyone does have a problem with anyone's post please don't post it in the thread but use the shiny report button.We like's reports .Thanks.

Ta

Noble Savage

[Каие]

Aww man, we went so long as well with no Israeli-Palestinian thread. These thread are boring without Aziel.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Aww man, we went so long as well with no Israeli-Palestinian thread.

Almost a record time

These thread are boring without Aziel.

You, guys, have fun.

[Dr. Croccer]

The Arab-Israeli conflict was a result of conflicting nationalist sentiments from both Jews and Arabs (and Palestinians, to a lesser degree), what we have now is merely the result of a chain-reaction caused by the aforementioned central reason.

[Blaze86420]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

How do you plan to remove a nation with a population of 7 million, an extremely advanced army compared to its neighbors? Your not going to have Israelis just demolish their nation state and everything they've worked for to cultivate it to accommodate Palestinians. The intifada didn't destroy Israel, the rocket attacks didn't destroy Israel all they served to do was to kill some Israelis and in turn a great deal more of Palestinians The settlements are another issue but don't plan to see Israel Proper go without a nuclear holocaust. That's just a realistic view.

[6644kp]

How do you plan to remove a nation with a population of 7 million, an extremely advanced army compared to its neighbors? Your not going to have Israelis just demolish their nation state and everything they've worked for to cultivate it to accommodate Palestinians. The intifada didn't destroy Israel, the rocket attacks didn't destroy Israel all they served to do was to kill some Israelis and in turn a great deal more of Palestinians The settlements are another issue but don't plan to see Israel Proper go without a nuclear holocaust. That's just a realistic view.

Well we could just have an invasion of powerful islamic counties such as Turkey, Egypt, Iran etc.
Just tell Israelis to surrender and they will be allowed to continue to live in the holy land but once they surrender, sell them into slavery. Simple really.

We could even experiment with them such as kill all the ugly ones
and force all the good looking ones to breed then there would be a master race!!!

[eggthief]

Well we could just have an invasion of powerful islamic counties such as Turkey, Egypt, Iran etc.
Just tell Israelis to surrender and they will be allowed to continue to live in the holy land but once they surrender, sell them into slavery. Simple really.

We could even experiment with them such as kill all the ugly ones
and force all the good looking ones to breed then there would be a master race!!!

Seriously, if you're going to choose sides then please don't act so immature. Egypt and Turkey went up into the civilisation tree, they won't fight Israel, especially not seeing as Israel proved that numbers don't matter in warfare. Hell before you're gonna try to rally all islamic countries you'd have to fix the huge mess within the countries first, I think they're to busy killing each other right now.

Two states would be great, but my pessimistic side tells me that one side will somehow revive the conflict. I have the feeling that mankind can't bear the thought of jews and muslims living in peace next to each other. Even though I agree with you on just about anything b_133, I'm afraid that the "one way or the other" mentality will remain.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Well we could just have an invasion of powerful islamic counties such as Turkey, Egypt, Iran etc.
Just tell Israelis to surrender and they will be allowed to continue to live in the holy land but once they surrender, sell them into slavery. Simple really.

We could even experiment with them such as kill all the ugly ones
and force all the good looking ones to breed then there would be a master race!!!

N-U-C-L-E-A-R H-O-L-O-C-A-U-S-T

[Bovril]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

The Israeli state is legitimate (now, not commenting on its foundation) for the exact same reason the occupation of the west bank is illegitimate, i.e. the wishes of the people who live in those places. A little democracy goes a long way in establishing working principles in times like these.

[Каие]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

Perhaps you should hear it from an anti-Israeli?

[Tiberios]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

Because like every other people in the world they have the right to have their own nation, like the palestinians. Palestine is the Jewish land of origin. A large Jewish majority has not inhabited the area for long time since the Romans no, but that was hardly the Jews own fault.

Furthermore, no people in the history of the world has been more persewcuated in nearly every land they have inhabited. In Europe, in Northern Africa and the Middle East, all these places have experienceed waves of anti jewish sentiment, sometimes state sponsored. Even in Denmark the Jews were blamed, in our case for the Danish defeat in the Napoleonic war.

They of all people, deserve a place of their own. So do the Palestinians.

[Blaze86420]

Because like every other people in the world they have the right to have their own nation, like the palestinians. Palestine is the Jewish land of origin. A large Jewish majority has not inhabited the area for long time since the Romans no, but that was hardly the Jews own fault.

Furthermore, no people in the history of the world has been more persewcuated in nearly every land they have inhabited. In Europe, in Northern Africa and the Middle East, all these places have experienceed waves of anti jewish sentiment, sometimes state sponsored. Even in Denmark the Jews were blamed, in our case for the Danish defeat in the Napoleonic war.

They of all people, deserve a place of their own. So do the Palestinians.

I refuse to pay for jewish persecution, the halocaust wasnt our fault. And throughout history, the middle east was the safest place for a jew. Not anymore...

[b_133]

. And throughout history, the middle east was the safest place for a jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_...rom_Arab_lands
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/hist...Almohads.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisem...enth_century_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...er_Muslim_rule
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahdad_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misr_El-Fatah_(Young_Egypt)_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tiberias_massacre
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/.../al-Mutawakkil
http://80.244.168.89/Communities/Archive/Fez.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Tsk Tsk Tsk.

[Blaze86420]

you only quoted part of my sentence, i said not anymore. What else would you expecting after the crimes israel has commited. this is not in any way a justification for anti-semitism, i have nothing against jews. a couple of my friends are jews. its the political zionist nation of israel that i hate. also you seem to forget how muslims treated before the foundation of israel. did you forget how lots of the scientists during the middle ages in the caliphate were jews? your communities prospered under our rule. dont deny it, we treated you best. and dont start with the dhimmi system, this was the maximum amount of tolerance and protection you jews would have recieved during the middle ages, dont complain. and wikipedia seems a bit biased and unprofessional dont you think?

[Principe Alessandro]

I wanna hear from pro-israelies why israel has a right to exist.

Because is a attitude now, maybe fifty years ago you could be right but now.............

And also I bring another consideration: a Palestinian state never existed in fact through the history of the last century.

All the so called Palestinian lands now in the hands of Israel were been owned by Egypt and Giordania.

Technically all those lands are acquisitions after peace negotiations between Israel and Arab powers.

In legal terms all those lands are property of the state of Israel taken by war.

Secondly all the Palestinian refugee are descendants of these Arabs that fled at the beginning of the war in 1948, circa 20% of Israeli populations is Arab (of Muslim, Druze and Christian religion) and those are the descendants of these Arabs that don't fled in the first war and they have legal status of citizen of Israel but also they have the privilege to don't fight in the army if isn't their willing to fight against their "Arab (or Palestinian of you prefer) brothers".

Thirdly but must important 856,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s; 260,000 reached Israel in 1948-1951, 600,000 by 1972 for the consequences of anti Jewish riots in the Arab countries, TOTAL 860,000 Jewish peoples were expelled by the Arabs.
The Arabs that voluntary left their home for the hope of the imminent victory were "only" 750,000.

So this article is only a piece of propaganda.