The Japan Self Defense Forces

[The Dude]

In other words, Japanese military.

Following World War 2, some heavy limitations were put in place on Japanese military power, and a new military doctrine was implemented that adhered to the following six principles:

- Maintaining an exclusive defense-oriented policy.
- To avoid becoming a major military power that might pose a threat to the world.
- Refraining from the development of nuclear weapons, and to refuse to allow nuclear weapons inside Japanese territory.
- Ensuring civilian control of the military.
- Maintaining security arrangements with the United States.
- Building up defensive capabilities within moderate limits.

As such, Japan's current military is a unique one in the world. It's soldiers are still counted as civilians, even when in uniform. The entire military is under the command of the Ministry of Defense, which consists again of civil servants. There are no military secrets, no military laws, etc. A Japanese soldier is a standard citizen in every way.

While this of course brings advantages with it, one should wonder if perhaps the time for Japan's military restrictions is over. I sincerely doubt that they would ever become an international threat again, and with angry North Korea looming, Japan might become a key player in a future war with Kim Jong Il's Juche regime.

What do you guys think? Is it time for Japan to be freed from ancient restrictions and expand to standard military capacity? Or should things be kept in place. Personally, I think we should just move on and give Japan the military power it deserves.

[cfmonkey45]

Bah, militaries are overrated anyways. Looks like they've made progress without one like the United States.

[Oldgamer]

Bah, militaries are overrated anyways. Looks like they've made progress without one like the United States.

They've made progress under the protection of the United States (and at our expense). It's time for them to take up the burdens of their own defense.

[Bovril]

They've made progress under the protection of the United States (and at our expense). It's time for them to take up the burdens of their own defense.

They have the fifth highest military budget in the world. Roughly one in every 650 Japanese people is currently serving in the military. If that's not taking responsibility for their own defense, I have no idea what is.

[Oldgamer]

They have the fifth highest military budget in the world. Roughly one in every 650 Japanese people is currently serving in the military. If that's not taking responsibility for their own defense, I have no idea what is.

This is good. And since their military spending is Constitutionally-linked to their GDP, it shows how well they are doing, even in this economy.

[Fishy]

Yeah they should create a new professional army... What they have now is just pure shite. A country like Japan would require a good standing army in the future, and starting to build in a few years from now would just be stupid.

[Arjun]

Yeah they should create a new professional army... What they have now is just pure shite. A country like Japan would require a good standing army in the future, and starting to build in a few years from now would just be stupid.

yes, they need one in order to project their power well in the south-east Asian waters, especially if they need to cut off China's oil supply though that region(in the event of war); which is its Achilles heel

[Deep_Red]

yes, they need one in order to project their power well in the south-east Asian waters, especially if they need to cut off China's oil supply though that region(in the event of war); which is its Achilles heel

You were ironic on that, I hope?

[Treize]

Yeah they should create a new professional army... What they have now is just pure shite. A country like Japan would require a good standing army in the future, and starting to build in a few years from now would just be stupid.

Since when the Japanese army is underequipped, incapable or weak?

[Fishy]

Since when the Japanese army is underequipped, incapable or weak?

It would be kind off hard for Japan to protect it's own (and more importantly it's allies interests) in the area of the world they are in without at the very least an adequate professionaly trained standing army that is ready to go on the offensive if the situation requires it.

What they have now wouldn't be able to handle a full out war in Asia. Now I'm not saying we should worry about a war like that starting any time soon, but it can't hurt to be prepared.

[bushbush]

It would be kind off hard for Japan to protect it's own (and more importantly it's allies interests) in the area of the world they are in without at the very least an adequate professionaly trained standing army that is ready to go on the offensive if the situation requires it.

What they have now wouldn't be able to handle a full out war in Asia. Now I'm not saying we should worry about a war like that starting any time soon, but it can't hurt to be prepared.

wtf are you talking about? They have one of the largest military spending in the world already and they have one of the best armed forces as well. They might be the one of the best trained and armed forces out there in the world.

[Bovril]

wtf are you talking about? They have one of the largest military spending in the world already and they have one of the best armed forces as well. They might be the one of the best trained and armed forces out there in the world.

Whilst that's true, their capacity to deploy overseas is very limitted, as is their air and sea power. They are very much a defensive force still.

[Deep_Red]

What excactly is the problem with "armed civilians"?
In case of war they can do the same work "professionals" could, so what?

[bushbush]

why should they be "freed" from those restrictions? If their large and powerful right-wing nuts can still openly deny and whitewash war crimes, if their EDUCATION ministry can still openly change textbook to omit "unpleasant" part of their own history despite objections from other asian countries, if their prime ministers can still openly visit a shrine that pays "respect" and "tribute" to war criminals, why should the world let them free of those restrictions. They are a dangerous bunch if they can't even admit they did something wrong by going all nuts and invading half of the world not so long ago.

[Rapax]

So, what exactly is the problem with the JSDF? I'm reading the OP and it seems like he's saying Japan is unfairly restricted or incapable of doing something. What exactly would that be? From what kind of greatness are we holding Japan back with those "ancient restrictions" and why does Japan suddenly deserve military power? In short, I don't really get the point here. Are you afraid of the Chinese and want a blocking army in the region or what?

[The Dude]

So, what exactly is the problem with the JSDF? I'm reading the OP and it seems like he's saying Japan is unfairly restricted or incapable of doing something. What exactly would that be? From what kind of greatness are we holding Japan back with those "ancient restrictions" and why does Japan suddenly deserve military power? In short, I don't really get the point here. Are you afraid of the Chinese and want a blocking army in the region or what?

No, it's mainly just me wondering if limitations put in place as a result of World War 2 still apply today. Even Germany isn't restricted like Japan is today, though of course Germany did go through a few national crises that arguably turned the country into something different from what it was in WW2.

Anyway I'm not trying to make a specific point, I'm just pondering the issue really. Is a country without a proper military even feasible in this day and age? Japan greatly relies on the goodwill of its allies to get anything to done. Perhaps we (as in, the victors of world war 2) are asking too much?

[IrishHitman]

So, what exactly is the problem with the JSDF? I'm reading the OP and it seems like he's saying Japan is unfairly restricted or incapable of doing something. What exactly would that be? From what kind of greatness are we holding Japan back with those "ancient restrictions" and why does Japan suddenly deserve military power? In short, I don't really get the point here. Are you afraid of the Chinese and want a blocking army in the region or what?

Japan is unfairly restricted.

They aren't allowed weapons beyond certain offensive capabilities.
Considering the interdependence of the Japanese economy with the West and other economies, I don't think that letting them have their military sovereignty back would be a bad idea in the face of growing Chinese and Russian power.

This is firmly a sovereignty issue, every nation has the right to develop their own military capabilities within internationally recognised parameters. Having stricter parameters for Japan because of events carried out by a vastly different society 70-80 years ago is simply degrading.

[Rapax]

It is by their own choosing as Japan is restricted by its own constitution not any outside power dictating their military strength. Also, once again, their military is considered a force to defend Japan, not to wage offensive war of any kind. I do not understand why this limitation is considered so negative by people. Since when does a nation need offensive capabilities to defend itself? You will need those when you plan on doing anything beyond that.

[Fishy]

It is by their own choosing as Japan is restricted by its own constitution not any outside power dictating their military strength. Also, once again, their military is considered a force to defend Japan, not to wage offensive war of any kind. I do not understand why this limitation is considered so negative by people. Since when does a nation need offensive capabilities to defend itself? You will need those when you plan on doing anything beyond that.

Since WWII there have been a few where the interests of the world or neighbouring countries were directly affected by the ability to wage offensive wars. Without that ability many of the affected parties would have suffered, along with the people in the countries themselves.

Just think of the Balkan for instance. Then there are the so called possible "humanitarian wars" were you fight an enemy because they are killing their people left and right. Sometimes the stability of your own country needs to be protected by helping the stability of another. And at times this could mean that an invasion is necessary. The lack of offensive abilities in nations eventually hurts their ability to keep things peaceful.

[IrishHitman]

It is by their own choosing as Japan is restricted by its own constitution not any outside power dictating their military strength. Also, once again, their military is considered a force to defend Japan, not to wage offensive war of any kind. I do not understand why this limitation is considered so negative by people. Since when does a nation need offensive capabilities to defend itself? You will need those when you plan on doing anything beyond that.

Their constitution was written by the Americans, and they would not change that article without US consent anyway.
If the United States makes an overture of support for the idea, then it will happen.

The limitation is negative because offensive operations are more effective than defensive ones in the modern military world. That has been the situation since the blitzkrieg on Poland in 1939.
The Japanese military would eventually crumble against Chinese attack, whereas if they had offensive capabilities, they could counterattack. Given Japanese technological ability and alliance with the US, they may be able to do so effectively as well.