Afghanistan

[NaptownKnight]

I don't know where to put this so if its in the wrong place my bad.

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me whats going on in Afghanistan right now. I know our brothers in 5th Battalion 10th Marines deployed there last month, and thats about it. How is the war going? Anyone whos been want to share some experiences with someone whos going?

Also, I'd like to add that the war in Afghanistan is quite a just war. The war in Iraq can be debated, but Afghanistan is clearly an operation to free an oppressed people and catch war criminals, and I am honored to be heading there to do my part to rid the Afghan people of the Taliban.

[Farnan]

Currently the US began a policy of no operations without supporting Afghans, a group of Afghans are pissed about air strikes, and the Taliban and Pakistan are in a bloody war.

[Heathen Hammer]

American political elites are trying to lengthen the war for as long as possible, while most of Taliban is safe from NATO in Pakistan.

[Fishy]

American political elites are trying to lengthen the war for as long as possible, while most of Taliban is safe from NATO in Pakistan.

Yes because we all know that the political elite would gain greatly from a longer war. Victory would surely help them, crushing the Taliban and Al-Qaeda would help them. Continueing this war will not help them.

As for how it's going. It depends it's on or off every few months. But in general it seems to be getting better and better with a few heavy peaks in violence every now and then that make it all sound worse then ever before. What's worrying though, but perhaps to be expected, is that the Afghani government is almost as radical as the Taliban was in the ways of Islam. The chance that a clear pro-western government with western morales and values would be installed is nihil, but something that would at least meet the west half way is also becoming less and less likely. Lot's of international criticism on that. The presence of troops however will probably be required for at least a dozen or so more years. Just to get the country stable enough to run on it's own. After that it's very likely that a constant presence would have to remain to

1.) Remind the people that a rebellion against the government won't work.
2.) Remind the government that they should in most cases do exactly what NATO and primarily the US tells them to do.

[Heathen Hammer]

Yes because we all know that the political elite would gain greatly from a longer war. Victory would surely help them, crushing the Taliban and Al-Qaeda would help them. Continueing this war will not help them.

If they wanted to defeat Taliban, they'd do that many years ago. Today, we can clearly see, that political elites would rather benefit from increasing war budget and "safety measures".

1.) Remind the people that a rebellion against the government won't work.
2.) Remind the government that they should in most cases do exactly what NATO and primarily the US tells them to do.

The problem is, people of Aghanistan do not want to be a colony - would it be US or USSR who would want to colonize them. Therefore, until Afghanistan is occupied and Karzai regime is in power, they'll rebel against them and the biggest alternative to NATO occupants and Karzai regime in Afghanistan is Taliban, would it be bad or good, but thats how it is.

[Farnan]

If they wanted to defeat Taliban, they'd do that many years ago. Today, we can clearly see, that political elites would rather benefit from increasing war budget and "safety measures".

Remind me how well the Soviets crushed the Mujahadeen...

The problem is, people of Aghanistan do not want to be a colony - would it be US or USSR who would want to colonize them. Therefore, until Afghanistan is occupied and Karzai regime is in power, they'll rebel against them and the biggest alternative to NATO occupants and Karzai regime in Afghanistan is Taliban, would it be bad or good, but thats how it is.

That's good since we don't want Afghanistan as a colony.

Oh and Afghans despise the Taliban, sorry for you.

[Heathen Hammer]

Remind me how well the Soviets crushed the Mujahadeen...

Why would they want to crush them?

That's good since we don't want Afghanistan as a colony.

Officialy not. You just install a loyal regime in there and occupy the country.

Oh and Afghans despise the Taliban, sorry for you.

And thats why disorganised Taliban was crushed with NATO forces so fast... not.

[Fishy]

If they wanted to defeat Taliban, they'd do that many years ago. Today, we can clearly see, that political elites would rather benefit from increasing war budget and "safety measures".

And pray do tell how would they have gone about doing that? The Russians never succeeded in beating the Taliban. Now the current nations in there have made more progress then Russia simply because nobody is supplying them with advanced weapons that could kick the of the invaders. That doesn't mean however that they can suddenly stop all road side bombs from appearing, make the population happy with them and stop the Taliban from even fighting. They can't control every mountain out there and can't station a hundred troops in every village. This means that the rebellion or resistance fighting or whatever you want to call it can continue to happen. Still why in heavens name would countries continue to fight for improving the situation there if they just wanted the war to continue.

And at this time an increase in budget for anything would hardly be beneficial, especially when you look at the economic crisis the world is in. Money should be saved not spend on a war like that, which is very hard if not almost impossible to win. I'm pretty sure the "ruling elite" would see that themselves as it's their money that's going away as well.

The problem is, people of Aghanistan do not want to be a colony - would it be US or USSR who would want to colonize them. Therefore, until Afghanistan is occupied and Karzai regime is in power, they'll rebel against them and the biggest alternative to NATO occupants and Karzai regime in Afghanistan is Taliban, would it be bad or good, but thats how it is.

Of course they don't want to be a colony, but with all do respect for those people, it's no longer about what they want. Hell it's never been about what they want. It's about what the west looks to get out of this war. Creating a democratic government is nice up to a certain point. But a pro west dictator would be just as good if the western governments could get away with it politcally speaking. Still to allow the Taliban to return would be admitting defeat, not just for the United States but for all of NATO. It would effectively say that NATO is uncapable of winning a war against relatively unorganized resistance. Neither NATO nor the individual nations involed and especially the US can afford to say such things right now.

And I seriously doubt it would benefit the people in the long run. Invest money educate the people and eventually they will step away more and more from what they are now, and see more and more benefits in western society. Call it brain washing if you want, but both the people in Afghanistan and the west have a lot to gain from it. Especially when you consider that the Taliban just isn't a possibility anymore.

[Heathen Hammer]

And pray do tell how would they have gone about doing that? The Russians never succeeded in beating the Taliban. Now the current nations in there have made more progress then Russia simply because nobody is supplying them with advanced weapons that could kick the of the invaders.

Russian leadership could crush Taliban, if they wanted to. White House just uses same methods, KPSS used in 1980s.

That doesn't mean however that they can suddenly stop all road side bombs from appearing, make the population happy with them and stop the Taliban from even fighting. They can't control every mountain out there and can't station a hundred troops in every village. This means that the rebellion or resistance fighting or whatever you want to call it can continue to happen. Still why in heavens name would countries continue to fight for improving the situation there if they just wanted the war to continue.

Because their elites benefit from continuing the war. Who cares about a bunch of NATO trucks or tanks being blown up, when corporations with influencial lobbies swim in cash from high military budget?

And at this time an increase in budget for anything would hardly be beneficial, especially when you look at the economic crisis the world is in. Money should be saved not spend on a war like that, which is very hard if not almost impossible to win. I'm pretty sure the "ruling elite" would see that themselves as it's their money that's going away as well.

Taxpayers money, not theirs.




Of course they don't want to be a colony, but with all do respect for those people, it's no longer about what they want. Hell it's never been about what they want. It's about what the west looks to get out of this war. Creating a democratic government is nice up to a certain point. But a pro west dictator would be just as good if the western governments could get away with it politcally speaking. Still to allow the Taliban to return would be admitting defeat, not just for the United States but for all of NATO. It would effectively say that NATO is uncapable of winning a war against relatively unorganized resistance. Neither NATO nor the individual nations involed and especially the US can afford to say such things right now.

And I seriously doubt it would benefit the people in the long run. Invest money educate the people and eventually they will step away more and more from what they are now, and see more and more benefits in western society. Call it brain washing if you want, but both the people in Afghanistan and the west have a lot to gain from it. Especially when you consider that the Taliban just isn't a possibility anymore.[/quote]

Also, real quick weapons people, the people you say want the war to continue, would benefit from the war ending so they can make China the new enemy. Afghanistan doesn't need high tech big budget weapons.

That would be suicidal for capitalist US. Look up imports from China.

Reason the Taliban are still around is something called Pakistan.

Which is US ally, by a coincidence, of course.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Here's a great link with some really interesting photos from the country.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...ghanistan.html

As an aside, I was talking to a guy who served over there, and he said if the country ever got its together, it could easily become the next ski-adventure capital of the world. Apparently the mountains there are just asking for ski fields...

[Farnan]

Also, real quick weapons people, the people you say want the war to continue, would benefit from the war ending so they can make China the new enemy. Afghanistan doesn't need high tech big budget weapons.

Reason the Taliban are still around is something called Pakistan.

[Farnan]

That would be suicidal for capitalist US. Look up imports from China.

No, before the War in Afghanistan, the US military got big budget items by claiming their use against an aggressive China. Lockheed Martin and Boeing lost billions off this war as the number of F-22s ordered was reduced from to 183 because of this.

Which is US ally, by a coincidence, of course.

1) Pakistan is not a US Ally.

2) Pakistan's ISI does not like the US and hates India in the extreme thus their support for the Taliban.

[Babur]

No, before the War in Afghanistan, the US military got big budget items by claiming their use against an aggressive China. Lockheed Martin and Boeing lost billions off this war as the number of F-22s ordered was reduced from to 183 because of this.

Well F-22s weren't really designed for this kind of conflict I think.

1) Pakistan is not a US Ally.

2) Pakistan's ISI does not like the US and hates India in the extreme thus their support for the Taliban.

99% of Pakistanis I know despise America's foreign policy, so yeah they're definitely not allies.

Arguably the ISI's hatred of India is even more than towards America.

[Homeros]

Which Taliban group are we talking about here? There are Pashtun nationalist, you have the Waziri tribe who only fights the Afghan Army, the US and NATO forces, there's the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (the Pakistani Taliban), the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) headed by Sufi Mohammed, his son in law, Maulana Fazlullah allied with Baitullah Mehsud and they are responsible for the latest in Pakistan and there's the good old Afghan Taliban of Mullah Omar. Not mentioning the drug lords, armsdealers, the ISI, foreign Jihadis and other criminals.

[Babur]

Which Taliban group are we talking about here? There are Pashtun nationalist, you have the Waziri tribe who only fights the Afghan Army, the US and NATO forces, there's the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (the Pakistani Taliban), the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) headed by Sufi Mohammed, his son in law, Maulana Fazlullah allied with Baitullah Mehsud and they are responsible for the latest in Pakistan and there's the good old Afghan Taliban of Mullah Omar. Not mentioning the drug lords, armsdealers, the ISI, foreign Jihadis and other criminals.

lol it is a powder keg waiting to explode or has it already?

well I know it is a habit for us Indians to blame the UK for some problems in South Asia but I have read that the Pathans never recognised the Durand line which the British drew up to demarcate a proper border between British India and Afghanistan.Pakistan inherited this border agreement in 1947.

[Holger Danske]

Well F-22s weren't really designed for this kind of conflict I think.

99% of Pakistanis I know despise America's foreign policy, so yeah they're definitely not allies.

Arguably the ISI's hatred of India is even more than towards America.

Which completes the circle.
The Taliban is still a major threat thanks to the Pakistanis who has no interest in seeing a successful outcome against Islamic militants. As for Volh. Do you actually wish that the Afghans shall suffer the Taliban once more?

[BlackPirate]

As long as Mr Karzai rules the country Taliban will exist and threaten afghan regime.This man has failed and still wants to be president of his country.He never managed to control something more than Kabul

Now about Taliban dont forget they are have many supporters among the Pashtouns(dont forget they are heros of war).US did the same mistake in Vietnam.They only saw the "bad" communists, while vietcong had managed to create an independent Vietnam

This link shows that in North Pakistan more people accuse the Pakistani army than the Taliban for the war.If people there support Taliban i understand why Islamabad hesitates to crash them.They tried this thing first time at 2004 and the result was a dangerous rebellion

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8040858.stm

[Smythes]

This man has failed and still wants to be president of his country.He never managed to control something more than Kabul

And hear lies a crux of the problem: Afghanistan is a country that is visibly subject over the last hundred years to "change and continuity". An example in 1971 was when girls who had been to school in Kabul, had acid thrown at them. Only last year, in Kabul in 2008, some girls had acid thrown at them for going to school.

This represents one aspect of the battle of modernity from the centre vs the forces of reaction be it religion, or tradition in Afghanistan. Its always been the educated centre, a central government trying to develope regions and the country. And thats the other problem Afghanistan has never really been a functioning nation state that those in the west could recognise. Life in the wilder parts of the country is medeival, traditional and untouched. Why should they be bothered by modernity?

The point is the Taliban of old were not interested in running the country. They were awful administrators and the only laws they applied were the extreme religious ones that most moderate muslims would not agree with e.g. extreme sharia law. They didnt care about anythimng else and the people of Afghanistan would bve stuck ina permanent medeival way of life with religiuon to boot.

I wouldnt wish that on anybody, especially people who DON'T want it, or like music, or dancing, or women having a life. The question that needs to be asked now is are the "Taliban" actually the same breed who invaded the country in the 1990's? I doubt it - these ones will be different, and for whatever reason they are fighting NATO forces, it is unlikely to be for the benefit of the nation. Its is also to be remembered that the locals have no love of the Taliban, and that what the country needs is peace and quiet, so it can find its own way, if it is possible with all the tribal loyalties. However, leaving the Taliban in control is not going to allow the country to develope in anyway. Therefore ISAF are doing an arduous task, with I think little thanks, to create conditions for a country to flourish. This is different from the 1980's and any Parralells with the Russian invasion, and what happened after that are ill made.

[Azog 150]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8041765.stm

3 of the 4 British Soldiers who died last Thursday have been named. It was the bloodiest day for the British army for 2 months. 2 (Including 1 Gurkha) died in a suicide bombing which also killed 14 civilians, 1 died after his vehicle was hit by an IED and 1 died on patrol.

[NaptownKnight]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8041765.stm

3 of the 4 British Soldiers who died last Thursday have been named. It was the bloodiest day for the British army for 2 months. 2 (Including 1 Gurkha) died in a suicide bombing which also killed 14 civilians, 1 died after his vehicle was hit by an IED and 1 died on patrol.

I hope they are avenged, its sad to see good men dieing out there. I hope I get the chance to serve alongside some Brits, especially the Royal Marines. From what I here we are headed to the Afghan Pakistan border.


Also, about the pics, Afghanistan is beautiful, that Canadian soldier looks heinous with his beard lol, and what the hell was the army thinking with their camoflauge soldiers stick out like sore thumbs in almost any environment.