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Thread: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND

  1. #61

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    The Factions of Hordaland and Vestfold also represent the military alliances led by their respective factions.

    In our mod mercs aren't necessarily Mercs, they mostly represent indigenous peoples who are recruited in a less traditional way than your standing army. The Sami would fall into this category as they would have been pressed to assist Norwegian Vikings as scouts and sometimes to bolster their armies (in a dire situation), but they wouldn't be used as a standing army.

    I believe that they are only recruitable in Norway and part of Sweden right now.

    You must be confused about the Sami, Pallantides, as my link stated they were allied to viking leaders and at points participated in armed conflict with their neighbors. They also traded and purchased and traded weapons such as spear heads and swords. If they never fight, why would they need spear heads and swords?

    Anthropologically there are two types of Sámi people, the eastern type
    which resembles northern Asian peoples, and the western which is
    closer to Europids; blood survey, especially in this century,
    indicates western rather than eastern heritage.
    That is from the article you posted:
    Perhaps the Sami you speak of are different culturally than these or they changed their views over time. After all, Genghis Khan lived about 400 years after this mod.
    Last edited by GatorMarine1833; May 10, 2009 at 02:16 PM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by GatorMarine1833 View Post
    The Factions of Hordaland and Vestfold also represent the military alliances led by their respective factions.

    In our mod mercs aren't necessarily Mercs, they mostly represent indigenous peoples who are recruited in a less traditional way than your standing army. The Sami would fall into this category as they would have been pressed to assist Norwegian Vikings as scouts and sometimes to bolster their armies (in a dire situation), but they wouldn't be used as a standing army.

    I believe that they are only recruitable in Norway and part of Sweden right now.

    You must be confused about the Sami, Pallantides, as my link stated they were allied to viking leaders and at points participated in armed conflict with their neighbors. They also traded and purchased and traded weapons such as spear heads and swords. If they never fight, why would they need spear heads and swords?
    Protection, even if they were a non-aggressive people they would still need some sort of weapons to defend themselves mainly against Finno-baltic people who sometimes raided Sámi terretories from the east, the Sami were praised by the Vikings for their ship building capiblites and live in a reletavilly peacful co-existence.

    In the 8th and 9th centuries, the Norwegians began to settle along the coast of Finnmark, and this continued through the Viking age and into the Middle Ages. In the beginning, the Norwegians were mostly traders who settled with their families. But as time progressed more and more of them moved into Sapmi. During this early time relations were cordial between the Sami and the early Norwegians; the contact was often mutually beneficial. They intermarried and engaged in commerce. According to Gutorm Gjessing (in his book Changing Lapps), “North-Norwegian culture has always been subjected to Sami influences. And whilst Ottar…learned how to keep reindeer from the Sames, the sea-Sames of Nordland at least learned how to keep animals from the Norwegians…” According to Gjessing, the Sami were superior boat makers. In fact, Gjessing conjectures that they built the majority of the whaling boats that frequented the North-Norwegian coast. Unlike other periods in their history, the Sami and the Norwegians had amicable relations. There is evidence that they looked upon each other as equals. In this early period the Sami frequently exported boats to Norwegian provinces. A burial mound, dated from the 10th century, for example, contained a Norwegian man who, according to Scandinavian custom, was buried in a boat. The twenty-four to thirty foot long boat was sewn together with reindeer sinew, a Sami custom that dates from the Viking Age to the 18th century. There is also the example of the Norwegian King who hired Sami craftsmen to build a fleet of boats. While the boats were being built, the King lived with them at their winter settlements. The King said the following:
    It was pleasant in the earth-dwelling when happily we were drinking, and the son of a King merrily could walk between the benches. There was no lack of fun at the merry drink. Men rejoiced with each other as anywhere else.
    For Gutorm Gjessing, this example illustrates that the Norwegians looked upon the Sami as their equals. He writes: “The episode of King Sigurd Slembe…illustrates excellently how natural the association between the Sami and the Norwegians was.” Gjessing thinks that the natural contact between the two groups may be because of the high esteem that each had for the other, for, unlike the later periods, the Sami and Norwegians were roughly on the same “technical” level. Gjessing’s explanation is reasonable, for people tend to associate more freely with their perceived equals. Actually, though, the Sami were superior craftsmen, hunters, and all around fishermen. The Norwegians bought many of their necessities from the Sami, such as, clothing, shoes, skin costumes, and blankets. So economically, the Sami were better off. The disparities were not as great as today’s differences.
    In addition to trade, the Nordic people and the Sami also intermarried, for the skeletons of Sami burials show a strong mixture of Nordic and East Baltic ethnic groups.
    Last edited by Pallantides; May 10, 2009 at 03:21 PM.

  3. #63
    Malvenor's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    It doesn't matter...in the first preview, he clearly stated this: "I would prefer a historicaly authentic mode which only substantially follows the history. Unfortunately we don't have capacity for a more serious work.
    So, this mod is also "historically inspired but creatively done" so the work is not perfectly historical..."

    This is a video game. History is history. If a game was historically accurate, you would have to do the exact same thing the real people did.

    But if you want to complain and riddle out your history knowledge to a mixture of people (some whom really don't care) then go ahead... don't flame me, I am just stating my opinion like everyone else

    But nice history knowledge though!

  4. #64
    danova's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Yeah mate, you are right!

    10. post:
    Quote Originally Posted by danova View Post
    ... finally just dont forget it, this is not historical symulation!!!

    "I would prefer a historicaly authentic mode which only substantially follows the history. Unfortunately we don't have capacity for a more serious work.
    So, this mod is also "historically inspired but creatively done" so the work is not perfectly historical..."
    .
    ... but i think this like debate is important if say important historical fact.
    ... but i think this kind of debates are important if they are about important historical facts.

    But we work with 1000 and 1000 elements, and sometimes we make mistakes and we have to choose betveen small mistake or big fault ...
    .

  5. #65

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    I'm not trying to bash anyone, I think the mod is great and the vikings look splendid, it's just the portrayal of the Sami I don't like.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Pallantides; May 10, 2009 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Sweet looking preview. Can't wait for this one to come out. Will the berserkers act as they did in RTW? Loved those guys.

  7. #67
    Halvar von Flake's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Hey Pallantides, isn’t it all about „writing history new“? There is kind of historical setting and you decide whether you draft Sami warriors or not. No options no game…believe me…my King of Hordaland will recruit myriades of peaceful Sami…

  8. #68
    TiTiTimmy's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    +rep forgot it


    Why can't I give rep???
    Last edited by TiTiTimmy; May 11, 2009 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Can't give rep?
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  9. #69
    Black_Nebula's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Awesome preview, great work!
    "I find your lack of faith...disturbing" -DV

  10. #70
    Recon's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Beautiful, just beautiful! ...This has been my most antisipated mod in a long time - atleast right after DG gave up the 1066 Conquests project. I had my doubts, but you sure oulived them and I'm beginning to think you'll outdo them aswell. Not a bad accomplishment for a Viking era mod - it is rare these days.
    I all already have my hopes up for the next installment if there is any.. I was thinking maybe from the tip of Norway to Bagdad and from Volga river to vinland?

    Now atlast.. soon: Anglia shall burn, the woman shall groan like whores and I shall become wealthier than a king!

  11. #71
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by Pallantides View Post
    I'm not trying to bash anyone, I think the mod is great and the vikings look splendid, it's just the portrayal of the Sami I don't like.
    I think the point of including these Sami mercenaries was to have a way to represent the ethnic group that had a large presence in Northern Norway, not necessarily because they were hired as mercenaries.

    Though I think the unit could be worked on, they don't look racially like the Sami's nor does their clothes look like that of the Sami people. (Look at Pallantides' pictures for a better understanding )

    Also another thing I noticed is that the two-handed axes the Norse wield aren't like the axes which were actually used by the Norse.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Bearded Axe


    Viking War Axe


    Last edited by hekk; May 12, 2009 at 03:23 AM.

  12. #72
    George Maniaces's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Great preview guys, very professionally put together and the best PR for the mod there could be. Thanks!

    - sig by LuckyNinja

  13. #73

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by hekk View Post
    Though I think the unit could be worked on, they don't look racially like the Sami's nor does their clothes look like that of the Sami people. (Look at Pallantides' pictures for a better understanding )
    Yeah the Sami mercenary unit look Nordic.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    I believe the Sami might have looked even more racially distinctive in 900AD than they were in the 19th and 20th Century.
    Last edited by Pallantides; May 12, 2009 at 04:19 PM.

  14. #74

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Great stuff, but how can a king be the head of state of a Jarldom? The faction leader must either be a Jarl, or the faction must be a kingdom.

    Sorry for being pedantic, but it doesn't make sense, as-is!
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

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    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  15. #75

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Really great units. I also like very much the style of your previews, Danova. Good work

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by danova View Post
    Captain & Flags:









    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    .



    .
    This mod's banners are by far the best I have seen in any total war mod or game.

    You should seriously consider doing some banners for ETW, as they could need some work.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    I love how sami's are represented. Keep up the good work, and let me know if you need some beta testers.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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  18. #78
    Arto's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Knowledge is a deadly friend, if no one sets the rules. The fate of all mankind I see, is in the hands of fools - King Crimson's Epitaph.
    תחי מדינת ישראל

  19. #79
    Halvar von Flake's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    I love how sami's are represented. Keep up the good work, and let me know if you need some beta testers.
    Blackleaf-Wille din jævel! How is it going? Good to hear you want to support TLK!

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    Default Re: The Last Kingdom - FACTION PREVIEW / HORDALAND ***new content***

    Quote Originally Posted by Halvar von Flake View Post
    Blackleaf-Wille din jævel! How is it going? Good to hear you want to support TLK!
    Måtte satan følge deg til helvete, din forpulte djevel! Ha ha
    I couldn't resist seing a mod with so many Norwegian factions slowly burn, so let me know what to beta test and I'll sign up.

    My current Beta testing: The DLV-mini mod is running strong on page 43.
    Some of the feedback: CV:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    A.I Recruitement and armys
    I play main campaign, France:
    Turn 60
    I can only build Wooden walls.

    • Milan and Germany got lots of spears, some mounted sergants, but they seem to lack archers, x-bow, etc. I got points up to the wooden walls, so they can offcourse have more range in later era, but not early on. It might be the that it's an early era-thingy. But don't over-do it, to much and because they will become soft armys.
    • Denmark is little better with range, they use some 2nd class range, and they also use Raiders, so thats cool..for them.
    • Spain, Hungary got some excellent armys.
      • Spain got great armys with a few DFK, javelins, x-bow, archers, low-level spears. So thats a pain in the ass. Need to ask the pope for some favours on that area. Spain had one stack I faced: 80% jinets, 1 general, and rest with merc spear and town militia. To bad I used the bouncer tactic in Tolouse.
      • Hungary got 3 DFK, some HA, some milita and a few Bosnian archers in BUDA. Not sure about more of their army. All in all, great because they are good ally.
    • I don't know if this is your field, but I think Flemish need more Pikes in their reinforcement. Specially their capital. Right now they got only got 1 pike or so in BRUGES. Right now, they can be taken down with one stack in a few turn, because the low number of nobels. Flemish is a small fart, but shuold really be a silent elevator fart.
    • All crusader armys are all deadly perfect. To bad that the crusade-target is in Cordoba, and non of the crusader dare to invade the target. Leaving my land with enemy crusaders.
    • Morale and Shield bonus for A.I is working great for them, so thats cool.
    • England is a strange case. I kicked them out of the main land. Then I never heard of them again. Maybe they are busy with Scots and Irish, but I never seen any navy.
    • Artillery has jet to be seen.
    • I got got kicked my ass in 1:1 battle with Milan, so thats a super. Seems that A.I, tech and cavalry, makes the diffrent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    No idea if A.I can ambush on a regular battle, but...
    BB 23/04/09
    Main campaing
    Total war A.I
    I started a new campaign as France with this update. West of Tolouse, south of Angers. Don't remember the name of the region, but I met Spain crawling up my spain there, so I attaked them...

    France (Player) Offencive

    1 General BG
    2 Franks cavalry
    7 mounted sergants
    4 Spearmen
    2 merc cross bowmen

    About 3 bronze chevron for all French units.
    Vs

    Spain (A.I) Defencive

    5 Javelin men
    2 X-bow militia
    3 peasent archers
    5 town militia
    3 Spearmilitia
    1 dis mounted FDK

    About 3 bronze to 3 silver chevron + silver shield, and attak upgrade for all Spanish units.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The battle start out withe the Spanish' range units(skirimish, bow, x-bow and 2 town militia) on the west corner of the map) They held there ground, more or less. I to placed my army on the oppesite side, on the west corner( that might be the reason for their placement) on top of a hill. But their amry was very divided, the rest of them, the melee units, started in the east side, inside a small thick forest.
    |----------------------------------
    |Spanish----------------Spanish|
    |range--------------------melee|
    |---------------------------------|
    |---------------------------------|
    |---------------------------------|
    |---------------------------------|
    |French------------------------|
    |---------------------------------|
    It looked like Spanish melee were there to ambush, what could be a master plan. But they fell miserably as they from the begining; They started moving back and forth, and the fact that the range units started far from the ambush units/forest. Would be awsome if range units could start closer to the forest/ambush units, and if the ambush A.I could hold their ground, dead still... Until contact with the frontline.

    This was not an "ambush" by the Spanish armada. I attaked them, and I could see them on Campaign map before= normal match.

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=28W8KR0P



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    Latest BB:
    • Mourtatoi, Byz, are invisible. Not silver surfer, but gone. Captn, shadows and flag are still there.
    • Main campaign (w/ Byz) = CTD on loadup.
    • Scenario Battles -> Kulikovo_1380 Unable to start, just a quick CTD on load up.
      • Includes: Russia vs Mongol(alot of mercenarys in that battle)
      • Custom battle with russia vs Mongol works o_O.
    • I see no reason to have both Spear Militia and Contaratoi, in Byz, because they have excact same stats..... maybe some testing....report back soon.
    Great update. Rep



    CTD Log:http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZEHVFT24
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    I know not all battel's are like custom, but I had some great custom battles with latest BB.

    • I(Milan 1 stack) had
      • 2 pike militia
      • 2 late attack inf.
      • 2 muskets
      • 3 gunmen?(early armoured musket)
      • 6 box gun-barrels wagons
      • 2 late cavalry
      • 2 culverins
    • A.I (England, 1 & 1/2 stack) had
      • 1 Late BG
      • 3 Demilancers
      • 3 Retinue LBow
      • 2 muskets?(the one before, arq...)
      • the rest of the stack=, heavy billmen.
        • The also had a support army of 6 morters(time crusial battle).
    Both me and the enemy had full (exp, shield & attack etc) upgrades for all units. God deam. I played it 5 times or so, didn't win any of 'em. The enemy just mowed me down, no matter the tactic. I tried:
    • Low projectile-formation
    • Fishing
    • focus
    • Army-Split, with a center treb-wall
    The later worked best, but god deam. They eat my army like a cake infront of a fat kid party. He he, deam!






    Not(e)ism:
    • Infantry normally pushes for the center. Then after first contact, 3-4 units goes back from the center-frontline, and starts to flank. With 1 or 2 layers of infanty pushing the frontline, depends on how deep the Players front-line is.
    • (heavy)Cavalry live their own lifes. They tend to never flank my pikes infront. Even if the pikes are the flank he he. They tend to rush my heavy infantry at start. Then retreat, and might go past alot of the Players units, before ending up in the most disastrous places you can think of. Like in the rear of my weak pike line - destroying the whole battle.
    • Archers tend to stay a behind the A.I frontline when fighting. And infront when marching; 50-100 yeards for both.
    • Skirimish(arqu?....early musket, you know)Randomly leave their position when the A.I line gets weaker, and charges for the Players own flankers. Impressive.
    • Artillery:
      • 6 Bombards are great, it's like a b-52.
      • Long rang Culverin are slow reload and very inaccurate.
      • Serpentin canons are very good vs troops. It's hard to even charge it with cavalry.
      • =Charging cavalry seems to halt for a couple of secounds , if you hit them with with artillery(specially with serpentin).
    Criticzism:
    • Gunpowder+moral damage are very weak.
      • [Mid/Late-battle]I did mamage to route one 60% Heavy Billmen: That got flanked by 1 Broken lancer, 1 charging mountad Lancer & shooting it down at the excat same time.
      • Another time[mid-battle]: I had 4 muskets shooting at 1 lonly Heavy billmen charging me. It only got the: : | -smile in the end, before meeting Player's muskets with steel.
      • All in all; moral damage from gunpowder are not in the game at all. Any way to nod it up a little % would be great.
      • Would be cool if the A.I archers could shoot flaming arrows at the Players unit, while it flanks the main A.I line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    Is it possible to reduce the number of stakes the peasants use? Loosen them up a bit?

    Btw: 03/04/09-files

    There are something wrong with the Scottish when I siege their town, Aberdeen;

    Report: 1:1 Norwegian(Castle inf.+1BG+1Catapult+4Clerics) Vs. Scots(Mo&Ba inf.+1BG+4HighlanderArchers+some peasents archers+rest; 1st and 2nd lvl. Milita)

    I siege, everything is in cool. Then...
    When you face the wall, these three archer-units are standig ontop the very left corner wall, . Then this happens after the enemy General, and 80% of the troops are down: They go down from the wall, when I enter the town center, which is good. But then, not going anywere-. Disorderly-. While "Firing missiles" - Without really firing anything at all. Just runing back and forth. Rubbing against the wall. Some are going in to shoot, but they run back way too quickly. Over and over.

    There are also a couple of low lvl. militias( from the same wall). Acting very normal, right next to them. These militia walks noramlly towards the center.
    After quite a while; three of the rubbers manages to wonders about 100 yards closer to the gate, where my infanty are in a R&R. The three of them starts to get in a fight with some of my Huscarls. Then the whole unit switch to Missile mode, shot 1 wolly, and then switch to melee and acts normal.

    Also 1 unit of Highland Archers [Skirmishers] is starting way back of the other end of the city, no idea why. These guys are standing there, no clue that their house is on fire. They like looking at the sunshine n' sh'it.

    The rest of the 80% of the other troops are standing and guarding the gate and the wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    This is awsome field work T-man! I sally out to take care of some drunken english bastards out-side Bergen, Norway.
    Enemy: 1armoured serg. 1serg. swordmen, 2billmen).
    My army: 3 passive militia and 2 Bodyguards.

    Anyway I charge them from their rear with my 2 bodyguards. About a 20-35 meters berfore the charge, the Billmen quickly turn around and charge me. And they charge me some more Impulsive behavior lead to serius damage on my Governor. Thats not just it:

    ++++++WALL++++++++++++++++++++|GATE|++++++++++++++++WALL+++++++++





    My Militia------------vv----------------------Militia-Militia-Militia
    1st Line.---------------^^---------------- Serg. Swordmen -Armoured serg.

    2nd Line. ----------------------------------------Billmen -----------Billmen

    My BG charge their rear. -----------Body guard^^----------------^^Body guard



    As I figh the 2 billmen in the rear, suddenly it happends. About 30 of the 87Serg. swordsmen turn around, and charge me like crazy. While the rest hold the line together with the Armoured serg like nothing ever happend. Even the armoured Serg. form al thin line, of about 15 spearmen while they were dealing with my militia. This happen just as my BG formed up behind them prepearing for charge. God deam, is this programmed? units divid them self?

    Rep+(soon)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    Nr 1, I don't know, but 2...
    Siege Battles (playe rattacks)
    The 1:1 Byzantine(100% stack ) vs papal(90% stack)
    City: Roma( Large walls)
    2 ladders
    2 siege towers
    1 siege ram

    Papal guard
    Helberd militia
    Spearmilitia
    2 Generals

    vs.

    3 Varangien guard
    3 Byzantine militia (swords men)
    6 early pro-spearmen
    3 Trebonzai archers
    1 mercenary frankish knight
    2 crossbowmen
    2 Generals



    All the enemy is disbanded among the city or stands among another gate. :S When I make contact with the wall, everyone runs back to the center of the city. Standing in one circle, very close and packed inside the flags. Archers run around and dance(move forward to shoot, but runs back again). Easy picking with the long range archers. Then devide all infantry and walk around the city. Easy walk towards the enemy plaza. Then run the last 5 meters to make contact. Enemy stand totaly passive.

    Field battles are very good. I belive the javelines should have a very quick reload time to counter the retardness, of not being able to shoot before enemy charge you. Like before.

    Some field battles are very retarded: Another papal fight,
    Army 4:3
    papal army = rufly same as before, but this time without horses or generals.
    Byz army= same as above^^ but damaged to about (70% stack)
    Their army is relativly passive/defensive.
    Enemy, pavise x-bow, go out in loose formation. I mow the, down with my general from the side. They retreat to their infantry and shoot from there.
    I get my merc. Frankys knight to flank the large papal army: I charge 2 times, then 3 enemy infantry start to charge me from their right flank. I get my Frank.K out of the way, but the three units continue to march outwards. Half way out of no where, they stop in a line . Standing there until the main enemy army is dead.


    Another very good thing for the population of Byzantine, got nothing to do with BB: I have not been attack. Not even a single attack from any enemy force(except from rebel boats). This is going on for the last 65 turns. Even though I capture Rome. All the sicilian, Papal armys, milan, venetian, hungarien, turks, kiev, armenien, egypt, jerusalem. NO ONE. This is getting on my last nerv.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    Example: The Venetian seige.9/3/09
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    1 are they messing up on the walls? - How? They occupy it quite well. Only 3 other units spread out elsewhere in the city. The infantry/spearmen are now holding their ground (high moral +No easy push-over). 3 Spearmen+ 1 crossbow units held of my entire army (rushing up 2 ladders).

    2 do they bother to defend the gate? - with enough troops? My only ram burned up, so there was no gate to defend. They seem to return pretty quickly - some times in their favor.

    3 are they retreating to the plaza too soon? - When should they retreat? Total rally to the center, after the 3 spearmen started routing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but different.
    Other battles show that they normally don't hold the gate, even if it’s breached. Only when they are in direct front vs. front, do they stay. Example: If your cavalry rush for the town center, then the A.I defenders tend to leave the wall (if un-occupied).

    4 when at the plaza do they all bunch up? - or do they occupy the surrounding streets? Most unit inside, while 2-6 units leading out, forming a cross. Works ok, but could be little bit more aggressive once there is contact.

    5 did it use siege machines in defense OK? - Even if it hits it's own men on the walls that's fine as long as it uses them. The one time they had one, yes (custom battle).
    Perfect for them. Serpentine shooting over the wall, hitting my unlucky general. 100 x

    6 are they doing anything dumb? (including what'd you expect)
    They could stand at the gate a bit longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    Holy sweet mother of all the gods! I was seizing Venice(crusader target). God deam it's hard!

    1 : 1
    ------------------------
    I had 1 Knight + 1 merchant cavalry + mix of 2nd lvl militia (35%), a couple of pro-mercenary’s(25%) and crazy fanatics(40%). =100% stack with 2 ladders and 1 burning ram.
    Vs.
    1 good general + (2nd lvl.)Italien spear militia (75%) + pavise crossbow (25%) . =90% full stack.
    +Reinforcement: 3 Italian spear militia.
    ------------------------
    It was neck in neck the whooole time.
    A.I had such a good moral that 1 enemy militia, could hold the the wall against 3 of mine (until they had 13 units). I really had to push them off.
    It all started with the 2 defending units had defeated 25% of mine. The rest of the enemy rallied back to the town center without a fight. I didn't care. I just stormed forward with all I got in 1 horde.
    Then as we all met, head-2-head in the "flag-square". Clashing of 1 exhausted flood of pro’s and fanatics vs. 1 determinate wall of high moral. The small elite mercenary’s concentrated on thir left front. And the extremely huge mass of crazy priests, sacrificing their fanatical lives on the right side. Both generals (about 5 units left) were just standing in each mass, eye balling each other.
    70% time remaining:The enemy all held me in a dead-lock "U"-formation around my pushing forces. Even more fresh militias coming my way, and I was slowly losing ground.

    10% time remaining: The only hope was to focus my small Corrico standard force (14 men) to slip through a small gap in the enemy wall. Then quickly turn back and hit them on their flanks. The whole bada-bing slowly shifted... Slowly eating the whole enemy army with my fanatics in a “C”-formation. Ending with a "O" as the time stopped at 2, 15 min left.

    Maybe I should have posted this in the AAR, but I got to say; [1:1 siege attack] is not a guarantee for victory. Very long mind-destroying battle . Keep it up!

    BTW. just ask for details.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    • Crap in sieges?
      • A.I defend:
        • Pretty much the same. -Half of the defending A.I army defends the wall, while the other half is spread around the city/castle. Eventualy. one by one, they come to the wall to die.(passiv)
        • +A.I artillery stays far behind the wall. fires over it, and hit my attacking troops.
    • Crazy generals?
      • still testing
    • Suicidal archers?
      • Longrange archers is ok, b/c range.
      • Still testing
    • Flanking?
      • Cavalry flank my sides, not the back.
    • Ignoring stakes?
      • Awsome, Enemy cavalry were about to charge my pikes. Then right before they hit... "OOhhh HELL NO", they turned around (instead flanked in behind them. He he) They got decimated anyway.
      • Still testing stakes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    I never use wedge. it's useless. The space between inside the "V" is complete waste of units. It also ruins the captians ability to use the warhorns.

    I never used other A.I then Normal DLV, and I tried the Lusted once. What is the real diffrence with the xbai nd' lusted nd' normal DLV? positiv and negative. Does it changes any thing on the campaign? or ONLY battles. If only battles, then I might considder useing them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    @Taiji
    1. I like the HARD CORE file. Makes them game even harder. I hope Repman can add this as a YES/NO i the first turn.
    2. I play as Byz, and I see Varangian guard is highly available from early on. In large numbers. This makes them an ordinary unit since Byz got huge amount of $. This makes them unspecial. Put 2 turs for special elite/fanatical units. Then recruitement popularity goes down considerably.
    3. You could also set a time limit on Order units (possible other units to). Or Put an exact date when The french king order the toture of the Templars. Then that makes them unavaileble. I saw this in a (free for use) mini mod long ago. Let me know if you need it.
    Just another 2 cents


    @Harris 2000
    WHAT?! I heard Repman dosn't run happy with SS work inside DLV. Weather this is eye-candy or script work.... who knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    The AI wall-recruting: Are they adding better soliders to the recruiting pool. or replacing the town militia for pikemilitia, and from peasents to seargents etc? The later might stop the peasents spawn during gunpowder age.

    Just my 2 kroners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    I tend to win alot of battles. Alot.
    How about you people?

    How would you make it harder?
    Or is this mod just to balance the weapons?

    Do you deal with available troops for recruiting? Is it possible to decrease AI recruting peasents recruiting in later era.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

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