What tactics do you use?

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

this is no a thread asking for advice i was just interested in what tactics people use. As usually play as Roma the legions flexibility allows for change and experimentation but my staple tactic is engaging there infantry as a line and due to the legionaries exceptional strength i have a thine but wide line allowing me to rap round their flanks and crush them after which my cavalry (usually gaulic mercinary) will ride round and attack their best units from the rear.

[apple]

Hammer and anvil.

[Redolegna]

Mow them down with onagers, keep them under heavy fire from archers on the flanks when they move forward, fire on them from the five cohorts on the first line, then from the five others on the second line, harass their flanks with charge from the cavalry and possibly some reserve cohorts from the second lines not used to plug the holes appearing in the first line.

And then... Chase their fleeing remnants!

Well, that's what I do.

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

have to say though there is certain delight to Parthia's hit and run heavy cavalry and horse archers especially against mega slow phalanx

[King Nud]

i generally try to flank,encirccle and obliterate. Works 'most very time.

But, i sometimes use a slight variation of the "Hammer and Anvil", mentioned by Apple.

I enjoy laying traps for the AI to walk into, like leaving a few elite units 'hiding' in the woods a bit in front ofmy line and to the side, so then the enemy advances past and gets pinned by my men, then voila, your hidden troops come mysteriously out of the trees.

This works extremely well with phalanx and heavy infantry.

[apple]

Hear is the tactic I use for my republican legions.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=204635

[shootie]

It depends, if im a Greek faction i usually make sure i have some phalanx and alot of Cavalry to hammer and anvil with.

However if im a Roman or Barbarian faction i usually pick alot of infantry and 2 lines of 6 Infantry untis, while the CPU is dealing with the first line, the 2 line swing around the flanks. This is REALLY fun vs Phalangites lol.

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

Against barbarians i usually go for the commander though with a few elite units as they collapse as a force often if they loose their commander morale is just gone.

[Herr Lindstrom]

For campaign I like to mount ambushes. but for open field like battles I use primarily ranged units (IE Peltasts, Slingers, Archer Elite, Forester warband). then charge home with my Armored warriors, sword warbands, and cut a hole in the middle with chosen axemen while spears outflank and then cav come around and hit in the rear. Battles usually last about 10 minutes (Excluding skirmishing and menouvering)

[Maximus_96]

hammer and anvil. i have legionaries or phalanx infront then peltasts, another line of infantry, archers, then heavy cavalry to hit the back of my enemy

[chaplain118]

horse archers

all of you can suck it

[Herr Lindstrom]

Ahh damn you. I hate the Samaratian faction... I almost always have to ambush them so that that i'm able to encircle those pesky Horse archers! I love inviting them into my enchanted forests of Germania

[Greve Af Göteborg]

Phalanx & Auxillary tactics , makes every army of mine very capable of defeating anything .

[iKossu]

I'm currently playing as Syracuse and I usually just have a long line (of around 9 units) of Syracusan Hoplites backed up with long line (of around 9 units) of Syracusan Marines (archers). I've rarely used cavalry. My tactic is simply just to stand my ground with hoplites until arches have fired their missiles. Then I simply charge a line assault and try to encircle their flanks. I've had countless victories over Roman legions and Carthage (now a wiped out nation) but egyptians have been a worthy foe since they use so many phalanxes. Those babies are very well armoured from the front as they keep walking on even as pincushions.

[Ybbon]

How do you play pre-reform Romans against massed Hoplites?

I'm on my first RS campaign and currently I am fighting like crazy against the Macedonians who have become a juggernaut. I'm just about holding them off. I haven't got the reforms yet although they will be soon as the Imperial Palace is being built in Tarentum now.

Most of my stacks use:

1 General
1 First Cohort VE
9 Cohorts VE
3 Roman Medium Cav
3 Velite
3 Triarii

Sometimes this varies, a couple have Onagers but I usually only use them for city breaking, especially lightly defended ones when I'd rather get in in a single turn rather than waiting.

Some older stacks have Hastati and Principe but I tend to use same 5 Has, 5 Principes, 5 Triarii, General, 2 Velites, 3 Equite (or 3 Cav, 2 Velite).

I have used Tarentum Hoplites too and placed them and Triarii in the front with VE or Principes behind. I'm probably just ahead in that I end up defeating two stacks per one of mine reduced to a stub. Cavalry are used to chase down archers, peltasts etc (and not Hammippos as I mistakenly discovered) or other cav.

Usually start with Velites first (though I'm thinking it may be better to send them to flank after then front line is engaged), then have VE/Principes/Hastati on "fire at will", engage with a second line to shore up any gaps or better yet start flanking.

Anyone have any other techniques for beating Hoplite/Phalanx armies?

If I can get mercenary archers, I use them and I did defeat 3 full stacks in a row with a single stack because of Onagers, but normally wouldn't have them unless I'm after a city. I tend to leave them in forts when not sieging.

Thanks

[Leeham991]

Depends on the type of army I'm fighting.

To name a few.

Phalanx, small cavalry force:
I hold back and send forward small forces to dent them with missile fire. Once the main engagement starts/ammo is spent I hunker down my heaviest line to hold off the pikes with the shields while I spread out the back line/light infantry/cavalry to slowly work up the sides. Any gaps formed in the line will be filled with the reserves who will also attempt to get between enemy formations to cause damage to the flanks.
This goes on slowly until
A) The formation pulls back.
B) All formations are surrounded.
C) I withdraw my own forces from battle.
It works well for me. It can produce large amounts of casualties if not executed correctly, the friendly missile line is lost or when the army outnumbered considerably, but when expertly deployed it is very effective.

Phalanx, large cavalry force:
Hold a long stationary line with the auxilia spanned across in front of the legions and a heavier force of legionaries/spear armed mercenaries on the flanks.
Keep the missile line behind the main line or between the 2nd and 3rd battalion lines of the legion (the legionaries front and back line) still ready to withdraw.
Use cavalry/missile troops (only cavalry if there's a choice) to try and lure the enemy cavalry/missile troops into the killing zone.
If the cavalry are destroyed, continue with tactics used against Phalanx only armies. If not:
Deploy the heavies to pin the phalanx down while pulling reserves/light infantry into a formation around the missile line to shield the main army from the enemy cavalry. As the back of the line must be kept shielded at all points it is impractical to attempt a flanking battle. It is instead best to keep a few Cohorts ready to pounce on any gaps that show in the line. Once a gap shows it will be (most of the time) possible pry the army apart. In this situation, if the cavalry do not notice the back can be pressed, but if they do notice and round off to that side then the back of the legion can swing to the sides. Once the phalanx is surrounded there is less chance of the cavalry dealing a decisive blow to your troops, though caution is still very much needed.

Standard Gallic force/small nation forces
I always start off with a clean U shaped formation with the missile line stretching across the top to make the army appear like a closed pot.
Though some may say I oversimplify, I have found that only the best generals can keep so many Gauls from chasing the missile line into the vase only to be crushed like so many dogs.

If the enemy do not fall for the trap (which I have found rare) there is a choice depending on the main base of their tactics.

Cavalry flank:
Slowly pulling the line straight while trying to keep the enemy at bay with a support force always helps in keeping the cavalry off the flank. Though bowling the main lines into a death grip between legionaries can still be easily achieved there should be extra caution taken to keep the cavalry from hitting the back of the lines.

Extended line:
A)
Extend your own line to match and attempt to use luck and small maneuver to gain small pockets of victory to grasp the whole line. This is best used against inexperienced or militia forces.
B)
Hold a thick formation with Legionaries fanned out to the side to cut off any route of flanking forces. Bring the heaviest fighters to the front to push into the line until a breakout is achieved where the formation can hollow out and mushroom over the enemy.

Held back missile troops:
This is more common and can be linked with any other "non-rush" tactic used against you. It's always best to keep the missile line as far back as possible while still protected and in a firing range of the enemy missile line. A firefight battle can always be easily lost when used independently so it's best to slowly push forward. This can also have desirable effects on other enemy forces as it pushes them in both strength and morale. Making the missile line pull back also give brief windows of quiet air to maneuver troops in quick attacks over range marked ground while not actually taking enemy fire.
Cavalry always works too if you work fast and effectively

Cavalry and missile force
Personally I will hold off in forts and cities and do all in my power to avoid a fight against an archer and horseback army, though I do have a couple of tactics against 2 types of cavalry army I've met in the field.

Hard and straight:
I like to pull into a box type formation.
The 1st line should be skirmish troops ready to fall back, the flanks should be two cohorts thick with men facing both to the flank and into the box while a back line faces into the box.
As the cavalry force hits the army they should easily push the 1st line back. You should attack as early as possible before they can consolidate an attack onto the inside of the box. This may crush the main force all in one, but for any skirmishing forces should be met with individual maneuver and skill. Your own cavalry are also useful against any foot archers on the field.

Skirmish and bounce:
My main advice is retreat, but if thats not available its all about pushing and plain old luck. You want to push the enemy when they have the choice of running into your forces or into a wall. It's messy, but it has worked for me.

Iberian/Carthaginian armies:
Ok, another thing I hate.

Most carthaginian armies will require some artillery shoved in their face.

My main formation against such an army is a long line with quite a gap between the 2nd and 3rd line while the 1st line is spread deep on the front wings of the army. The missile line (best consisted of peltasts) should be spread thin between line 2 and 3 and thick behind the wings of line 1 to counter elephants, cavalry and heavy missile troops. The artillery, which should be placed in front of the 2nd line as part of line should have the main goal of disabling the enemy artillery/elephant/phalanx lines with a secondary goal of counter missile warfare.

As is the nature of the armies of this type that they are very much a mixture of a common Gallic army, a Legion and a Phalanx force with a mixture of other monstrosities thrown into it.

I would suggest using all of the tactics before mentioned as well as the tactics of other players/real life generals to defeat the armies of the south western map.


Those are my main battle tactics at least. The have always worked quite well for me, but I claim no responsibility if you loose a campaign using these tactics I explained here

As with all warfare, EVERYTHING I've mentioned can also be countered and result in defeat



Vele
- Leeham991

PS: Apologize for the long post

[cnaeus]

Standard Gallic force/small nation forces
I always start off with a clean U shaped formation with the missile line stretching across the top to make the army appear like a closed pot.
Though some may say I oversimplify, I have found that only the best generals can keep so many Gauls from chasing the missile line into the vase only to be crushed like so many dogs.

If the enemy do not fall for the trap (which I have found rare) there is a choice depending on the main base of their tactics.

could you post a pic of this formation??, i'd like to try it but dont know how wide the "U" most be for the enemy to fall for the bait.

cnaeus,

[Leeham991]

I would naturally but
1) I have not the time (sorry )
2) It is all down to circumstance. Sometimes a long shallow U is needed, somethings a short deep one. Though it is always best to keep the flanks of the U longer than the distance between the enemies 1st and final lines.

[cnaeus]

ok i see, i'll get experimenting right away. tnx for this great idea you just gave me. i see myself as a fairly experienced tactician, but i never tried the lure with support units and crush in a trap. i always just build a solid line and focus my attention on the flanks so they'll beat anything the enemy has to stop them, then just hit their backs. but i really like this idea of yours, tnx man.

cnaeus,

[Tankbuster]

Something not mentioned here is ambushing. There's nothing like springing an ambush or two to turn the battle in your favor.
The type of ambush I use most often is a kind of 'double ambush': have some light auxilia infantry hidden on the flanks of my armies (a bit ahead of the main army). When the enemy passes through, put the skirmishers to good use; and when the enemy uses cavalry to try to chase them down, lure them into a second ambush consisted of a unit of spearmen.