Independance for the united kingdom from the EU

[Captain.E.Blackadder]

I think the UK shoul leave the EU. The united kingdom has to pay millions of pounds a year to be in the EU and surrport other nations in the union.

Are you with me.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Don't slam the door on your way out.

[Helm]

Are you with me.

Nope.

[Treize]

Why only the UK, I want too!

[Phalanx300]

Why only the UK, I want too!

Me too! Europe is getting out of control!

Back with the Gulden!

[Alhamar]

Together stronger, you guys should adopt the euro and stop the silliness of feeling diferent just because u are in an isle.

[Helm]

Together stronger, you guys should adopt the euro and stop the silliness of feeling diferent just because u are in an isle.

We certainly should do you're right.

[Azog 150]

Are you with me.

No, I like it the way things are. But I still don't want to change to the Euro.

[cristophe el perno]

Not with you at all.
Europe has problems, but pulling out wouldn't fix those problems and most likely wouldn't improve anything for Britain.

[Kogen]

Yes, hardship brings innovation.

But saying just the UK is insulting to everyone else trapped in it.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Yes, hardship brings innovation.

But saying just the UK is insulting to everyone else trapped in it.

Its not insulting, or at least it wasnt meant as a insult, its just the E.U is the topic on everyones lips in the UK and we are seemingly the only country in the E.U who hasnt been given a referendum yet..

The UK has nukes. As far as i'm aware that makes our sovreignty pretty damn defencible.

Not so i am afraid, i think Britain sold her nuclear deterrent to the USA (dont ask me why!) but the thing is if you have nukes it doesnt make your soverignity defencible it just gives you greater military clout. If you ask me Britains soverignity like many other EU member states, is being slowly crushed like that of a deer being crushed in some giant serpents coils..

Could it be because EE nations are willing to play game of divide and conquer which USA is engaged in to keep EU from becoming powerful competitor able to influence USA, instead of just meekly following american lead.

The USA wanted the E.U to stop the whole of Europe from falling under communism, and really the E.U does influence the USA enough as it was planned to be, a trading bloc. There is no real need to unify europe and is only invioned in the drunked dreams of MEPs who want even more power and a greater pay check at the end of the day.

As for the rest of europe such areas such as Romania, Poland and Estonia had no hope in hell in going it out alone, so they whore themselves out seemingly to who will keep them and give them the best economic deal, which is causing massive resentment back here in Britain..

[Tiwaz]

The USA wanted the E.U to stop the whole of Europe from falling under communism, and really the E.U does influence the USA enough as it was planned to be, a trading bloc. There is no real need to unify europe and is only invioned in the drunked dreams of MEPs who want even more power and a greater pay check at the end of the day.

So USA does not want EU to have more power to have ability to flip the finger to USA or ability to dictate it's terms to USA on equal position of power?

No, ONLY trading block will NEVER have enough influence on USA. Because such system is so fractured that USA can play one part against the other. As it has done for years.

Without political and military cooperation EU is shooting itself in the leg, unable to truly use it's full potential.

Tell me, in who has in their interests that EU is so handicapped?
It damn sure is not in long term interests of ANY EU nation.

But perhaps Britons are so altruistic that you are willing to bite the bullet for your "brothers" across the sea in faint hope that they sometimes let little crumbs fall from their table to your level.

As for the rest of europe such areas such as Romania, Poland and Estonia had no hope in hell in going it out alone, so they whore themselves out seemingly to who will keep them and give them the best economic deal, which is causing massive resentment back here in Britain..

Which is essentially why "EU must only be trade block!" is idiotic position.

It opens up EU to foreign tampering and interference. Essentially neutering the influence EU might else have.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Without political and military cooperation EU is shooting itself in the leg, unable to truly use it's full potential.

How the hell would making the EU have an army help us trade and stop America interfering.. and plus making the EU have its own army would bring about LOADS of problems im pretty sure the french and the germans would start squabbling over its control and then a few years down the line WWIII and us brits would have to sort things out AGAIN!

But perhaps Britons are so altruistic that you are willing to bite the bullet for your "brothers" across the sea in faint hope that they sometimes let little crumbs fall from their table to your level.

Owch no need to insult me =/

Which is essentially why "EU must only be trade block!" is idiotic position.

I disagree, Britons voted in favour of the EU being a trade bloc nothing more..

It opens up EU to foreign tampering and interference. Essentially neutering the influence EU might else have.

How?

[Tiwaz]

How the hell would making the EU have an army help us trade and stop America interfering.. and plus making the EU have its own army would bring about LOADS of problems im pretty sure the french and the germans would start squabbling over its control and then a few years down the line WWIII and us brits would have to sort things out AGAIN!

Very simple. Unified political and military under EU will give EU independent powerbase for their defence.

NATO, which is essentially USA dominated, would no longer have influence in EU politics.
Unified political front of EU would force USA to consider it's every action based on possible outcome of whole EU acting in reaction.

Do you think USA would have been quite as gung ho about going to Iraq if whole EU had in one voice said that it is firmly against this action?

Owch no need to insult me =/

Hey, that is what you guys are doing!

Seeking to sabotage EU to keep it from becoming serious competitor to USA, following lead of USA to whatever military charade it decides to start...

I disagree, Britons voted in favour of the EU being a trade bloc nothing more..

You elected representatives who worked on making it more. You Britons do not live in absolute democracy, you live in representative democracy. It is YOUR fault if you elected politicians who failed to represent your interests.


Or perhaps they DID represent your interests, but Britons are still too stuck up in the past to understand that either you join up with EU and go forward with it or become irrelevant on Global scale.

Like Israel is. Someone tried to present Israel as proof of "power". In reality, Israel is irrelevant. It holds no actual Global power. Only power it has is to bully neighboring even weaker countries to retain status quo.


Hey, did you guys get to vote on joining Iraq war? Why are you not whining about that?

How?

By creating more or widening existing fractures in EU. For EU to work, and everyone in Europe needs EU to work, it needs to present united front to outside.


This is again the old story of sticks. Lonely sticks get bent and broken. So will sticks which are there in disarray.

But if they are in one, tightly set bundle, it cannot be bent or broken.

The reason isn't because the US forces this, the reason is because European states tend to disagree with each other! Thing is, why the hell do you need to outdo the US? All that needs to be done is to have a collective trading platform to compete effectivly.

And what is your suggestion to dealing with potential situation where USA uses political or military power to further their interests which hurt European interests?

Economical power only goes so far. And what about situation where Russia starts to put pressure, military as well as political, on EU members and USA decides that it is time to wash it's hands from Europe or at least present threat of doing so unless EU appeases US demands?

We have no existing military organization which would encompass whole EU. It would have to be built from scratch in an instant. It CAN be done, but costs would be far higher. Right now huge portion of Europe is ponying up their defensive abilities to arrangements with USA. Giving USA huge leverage in every negotiation if Americans want to use it.

And they will, sooner or later.

Thing about Pro-Europeans is they generally hate America, and any Euro-skeptic is automatically labeled America's pet. Likewise, it seems you all seem to want a powerful EU superstate. Why?

I do not hate America. I treat it like every other huge global power like China or Russia. With distrust. Because USA will damn sure NOT do anything which is in my interests unless those interests happen to coincide with US interests.

If I want my interests to be protected regardless of US, Russian or Chinese interests, I must have all three pillars of power in my own disposal to ensure it. That means, political, economical and military power.

If it's a trading block, it doesn't need to have political influence, just ecomomic influence. The EU being a trade block is a perfectly reasonable and valid position.

No it is not. Not in long term and not unless you want to be bullied and kicked around by USA, Russia, China and India.

Reality is that only things you can count on to have are ones you have power to keep. That is what Israel does do correctly. They have obtained enough military power to ensure that their borders are secure.

If they put their faith on someone else to protect them, they would open themselves to abuse by that power.
"Do this or I might not be quite so efficient in protecting you."

[Dr. Croccer]

No.

[Stavroforos]

Alrite bye.

(but no seriously, don't leave.)

[Frankie88]

Yes lets all get out of the EU and go back to feudalism, wene there was no such thing as corruption. I have always liked the idea of putting my own excrements in a pan set it on fire and throw it of the balcony at those damn invading postmen.

[Xen]

Alrite bye.

(but no seriously, don't leave.)

I guess Greece wouldnt leech so much of the west each year then? I certainly dont appreciate paying arrogant Greeks like you 30 billion a year to help out your country.

[Stavroforos]

I guess Greece wouldnt leech so much of the west each year then? I certainly dont appreciate paying arrogant Greeks like you 30 billion a year to help out your country.

No, you'd rather spend 4.5billion and lose 179 men being America's lapdog in Iraq.

[Captain.E.Blackadder]

The EU parlament is corrupt and as the EU grows the more the fee the members have to pay. In the united kingdom this cash could be used to improve the NHS, schools and public public services. At the moment the fee is 40millon pounds. This could be used to better the NHS, schools and orther public things.