View Poll Results: Would you like enemy AI reinforcements (when AI is more powerful) to:

Voters
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  • join main AI army?

    32 44.44%
  • attack player?

    28 38.89%
  • do something else? (please post feedback)

    2 2.78%
  • plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market?

    10 13.89%
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Thread: ReallyBadAI Battle System +Hardcore +Settlements v5.7 >Oct 17< ### New Imladris AI ### incl. Battle AI and Content Switcher

  1. #161

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market? 6 13.04%
    Wow. Just wow.


  2. #162
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    I think the poll results so far are asking for a reinforcement system which attacks the player or joins the main army if appropriate. Basically they should attack the player if they arrive behind him and join the main army if they arrive behind them. If joining the main army, then the main army should also move towards the reinforcements in order to consolidate faster.

    If the reinforcements arrive on either flank then they should move to increase their distance from the player by moving up or down the edge of the map to meet the main army. The main army should deploy as close to the location where the reinforcements will appear as possible and move to the meeting point.

    I suppose ideally we'd have a well timed, 2 prong attack which makes use of the AI armies independance but that is probably very difficult to achieve with consistancy in such a varied environment.
    Last edited by Taiji; May 23, 2009 at 01:50 PM.

  3. #163

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Taiji have a good point, but i think the simplest thing to do (if no other thing works) would be just to make the reinforcements very aggressive, so they always try to attack the player regardless of where they appear.

    That would make the player have to face the main army and reinforcement almost at the same time, and if he´s unlucky and the reinforcements are on his flank/rear... well more the challenge

  4. #164
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Actually it's easier a lot of times if they are at the rear. You can rush units over to the line if you aren't fighting on the border and kill them off as they become 'active', taking a multi-unit army and turning it into a lot of single and double unit armies. I did that to the ai recently, soon as they came on the battlefield they got routed by cavalry/pikemen combo.

  5. #165
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucefalo View Post
    Taiji have a good point, but i think the simplest thing to do (if no other thing works) would be just to make the reinforcements very aggressive, so they always try to attack the player regardless of where they appear.

    That would make the player have to face the main army and reinforcement almost at the same time, and if he´s unlucky and the reinforcements are on his flank/rear... well more the challenge
    If you are fortified on a hill splitting your archers to front and rear usually helps, but if you are on flat ground or in some kind of pit, then it's your doom
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  6. #166
    Mithrandir's Avatar Flame of Anor
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Quote Originally Posted by xaldin View Post
    Actually it's easier a lot of times if they are at the rear. You can rush units over to the line if you aren't fighting on the border and kill them off as they become 'active', taking a multi-unit army and turning it into a lot of single and double unit armies. I did that to the ai recently, soon as they came on the battlefield they got routed by cavalry/pikemen combo.
    That's because you decided to use an exploit. House rules...


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  7. #167
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    That's because you decided to use an exploit. House rules...
    Exploits aren't so bad... particulary if reporting them leads to improving AI code, many are hardcoded though. I love using dirty tricks and then trying to fix them, that's what led me to writing my own AI.

    As for poll results... some commands are pretty bugged and what's even "funnier", they're not always logged even if performed, which makes scripting even worse. And I also need to consider what AI will do when I let it control its army after initially scripting some bahaviour.

    I've had a busy weekend, so I'll get to work as soon as I find some energy (edit: may not happen within next 12 hours).

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 24, 2009 at 01:56 PM.
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  8. #168
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    That's because you decided to use an exploit. House rules...
    Yes I do realize that it isn't all that fair to the AI and that the artificial limitation on battlefield size is something that can't be changed. There is a bigger point though, when the AI has split forces it becomes a lot easier for a human to exploit it's inability to make broader decisions. In that particular instance what the AI should have done was rush my lines with the other forces and attempt to overwhelm by sheer numerical superiority instead they spent some time casually re-working their formation then walking calmly over to me to engage. There was 1 rohan cavalry unit harassing the main body on the map and they approached my lines 1 unit at a time since while I was mopping up the reinforcement army piecemeal.

    AI has numerous limitations, however it in theory can multitask on a more granular level faster than a human can. The effort I was expending on the reinforcements meant I couldn't babysit the other side of my line very much and it should have ignored the rohan unit, at most that unit could tie up one of his many units and just zerged me. Even if I won I'd have taken a lot of losses. As it was I had about 40 or so deaths or sub 2% of my army to the obliteration of 2 armies, each larger than mine. However currently a divided AI is a very dead AI and that was the point I was trying to make just not in so many words.

  9. #169
    axnsan's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Quote Originally Posted by JonSnow View Post
    plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market? 6 13.04%
    Wow. Just wow.
    plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market? 8 14.55%
    Last edited by axnsan; May 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM.

  10. #170

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    When I try to use 10.86 now I have this message in window script host Script:
    C:/ program Files (x86)\SEGA|Medieval II Total War \ Mods \ Third Age\ G5BAISwitcher.vbs
    Riga: 29
    Carattere 23
    Errore Autorizzazione negata
    Codice 800A0046
    Orifine: Errore di runtime di Microsoft VBSscript

    I use Vista 64 in italian version

  11. #171
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    It looks like your operating system blocks the use of the script (VB scripts aren't always safe), it prevents copying a set of new AI files and overwriting old ones.
    Turn "User Account Control" (UAC) off, it should work then, there are many guides on how to do that on the internet.
    If you have any problems, feel free to ask again.

    Regards
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  12. #172

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    One problem I have experienced with your AI, was when I (playing as Rohan) attacked a larger army. I got a full stack of own mounted reinforcements, but they did nothing. No matter the stance I set, I even engaged the enemy with my own army first, expecting them to join me but it didn't work.

    Another one was when i was attacking a bridge, i had a fairly small army again, and my reinforcements just stay near the red line and sit there like sticks on .

    Your AI is excellent, just hoping it could get even better

    EDIT: There were also a couple times when I got a ballistae on the battlefield. I sent the ballistae to the side of their formation so it was like this:

    ballista___________enemyunits

    __________________own units

    and started bombarding their formation. They took very heavy casualties, the more expensive the units the heavier, and just sit there, even if the ballista was really far from my own formation and unguarded.
    Last edited by grumpygoat; May 25, 2009 at 01:22 PM.

  13. #173
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    @grumpygoat
    This isn't a problem of my AI only, latest release attempted to fix most of such issues though, I hope you're using it. Armies with mounted units are very unlikely to behave passively, how far (roughly) from them was AI enemy?
    I also suspect reinforcements could be at least partially using default hardcoded AI, but I can't say I'm sure (some behaviour could indicate that).
    Anyway, I'm still working on scripting reinforcements, so they should behave pretty decent and AI-independent when I'm done (hence the poll).

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 25, 2009 at 01:26 PM.
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  14. #174

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    The version I use currently (and was using in my examples) is an older version, maybe I should update it. Is it savegame comp? The enemy was fairly far away in the cavalry reinforcement situation, around half way between their red line and the middle of the map. In the bridge battle the reinforcements came (if i remember right) right behind me.

    Sry if you already had worked on it, should've updated the AI.

  15. #175
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    AI is always savegame compatible, I strongly suspect this issue wouldn't occure with the latest files, but I count on further reports if it turns out different under some circumstances.

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  16. #176
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    New and improved stakes script versions are up, they limit unnecessary execution and allow night and siege stakes (wrapped with good conditions requirement), more details HERE.
    Thx to Taiji for good feedback.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 29, 2009 at 08:32 AM.
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  17. #177
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Of course you will forward this improvement to PB for next RC update?

    Regards
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
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    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  18. #178
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts >May 26< for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    I'll just pray PB sees it for now .
    v0.3 reposted with one insignificant change.

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  19. #179
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts >May 26< for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    Germanicu5, if I may make a small suggestion if it is at all possible. One thing I've been looking at is how the AI forms up for combat in the field. Frequently it is putting its lightest infantry along the flanks which makes some sense (having your heavy infantry in the center is almost traditional to prevent the army from being split) but if there are no cavalry to support those flanks I can use cavalry or a heavy infantry block to just roll them right up. Perhaps when the AI is making its formation having it spread out so that you have H L L HHH L L H instead basicly anchoring the flanks with a heavier infantry unit (or at least a spear unit) instead of concentrating them in the center would make better tactical sense when they don't have enough cavalry to guard the edges.

  20. #180
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts >May 26< for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    @xaldin
    Thx, I actually made one formation that puts spear units on flanks and it's used with the latest battle AI switcher together with other formations. I'll be extending the range of used formations as soon as I'm done with more urgent stuff and I'll consider your suggestion

    Stakes Deployment script v0.31 is up, no changes influencing gameplay made.


    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 26, 2009 at 03:30 AM.
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