View Poll Results: Would you like enemy AI reinforcements (when AI is more powerful) to:

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  • join main AI army?

    32 44.44%
  • attack player?

    28 38.89%
  • do something else? (please post feedback)

    2 2.78%
  • plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market?

    10 13.89%
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Thread: ReallyBadAI Battle System +Hardcore +Settlements v5.7 >Oct 17< ### New Imladris AI ### incl. Battle AI and Content Switcher

  1. #141
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by axnsan View Post
    i don't think it would be good in all scenarios. eg.:

    main army consist of 1 unit of general bodyguard
    reinforcements are a full stack army
    so if you defeat the GB the full stack will retreat. perhaps some limit on minimum number of units in main army?
    Yea, ofc, this is just a general idea, at this point I see no command that would directly cause AI army to withdraw during a battle (I was pretty sure I had seen one), while making AI army rout instead isn't a good solution.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 21, 2009 at 11:37 AM.
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  2. #142

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post

    @ivanhoex
    - there's some point at which archers need to leave walls and they're bound to run into player troops, unless I make them stay there till they're dead
    - plaza troops always behave like that, they wait for the imminent defeat, the latest AI made it defend streets longer, but that doesn't influence castles
    - as for suicidal general, I can make this unit passive for 1 minute after gates are breached and see what happens

    i didnt meant archers. in the latest siege i remember, they were two units of gondor spearmen, one on each side of the door. general was in the plaza and that was all their strenght. if spears had holded the walls they could have killed lots more of my troops for certain.
    is it possible to leave melee on the walls and retreat archers? if so, i recomend retreating archers at the moment that a stair/tower is stationed before them, and exchange them with melee.

    -general remained at the plaza the whole time, he acted suicidal at my field battles, so it might be harder to control him. when ai is attaking in a siege, yes, generals tend to die quickly after door opens, so making them wait outside of the walls for a while might be better idea.

    hard choice between letting them be at missile range or improving their army morale...



    as i mentioned before, in two battles, AI retreated in order (no root) when the reinforcements were holding a neighboring city/castle. so i couldnt take it from them just by fighting some guys and forcing them join.
    Last edited by ivanhoex; May 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #143
    axnsan's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    Yea, ofc, this is just a general idea, at this point I see no command that would directly cause AI army to withdraw during a battle (I was pretty sure I had seen one), while making AI army rout instead isn't a good solution.

    Regards
    i'm sure i seen the ai withdraw from the battlefield several times (not rout, just run, and if one of my units caught them they would fight) so there must be a command

  4. #144
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by axnsan View Post
    i'm sure i seen the ai withdraw from the battlefield several times (not rout, just run, and if one of my units caught them they would fight) so there must be a command
    Not every behaviour seen in battle can be scripted via campaign script, 99.9% of available commands can be found in M2TW docudemons v4.0. I had no success with additional code found in .exe so far (e.g with 15 or so variants of withdrawal code). There's also a problem of how AI will be have when you turn AI back on after scripting some actions.

    @ivanhoex
    I'm already using a setting that's supposed to exclude the requirement of mandatory manning walls with missile units, so it should be helpful (I think there was a different setting in v0.84 only). I'd appreciate it if you upgraded to the latest version (it doesn't influence ongoing campaign in any way) - this way I'd get some feedback on how much changes I've made improve siege stage progression. As for swapping archers for melee on walls when siege equipment docks - it's not possible, melee units will come to help though.
    Have you checked the engage-dist for your general as I suggested? It'd be helpful.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 21, 2009 at 03:40 PM.
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  5. #145

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    Not every behaviour seen in battle can be scripted via campaign script, 99.9% of available commands can be found in M2TW docudemons v4.0. I had no success with additional code found in .exe so far (e.g with 15 or so variants of withdrawal code). There's also a problem of how AI will be have when you turn AI back on after scripting some actions.

    @ivanhoex
    I'm already using a setting that's supposed to exclude the requirement of mandatory manning walls with missile units, so it should be helpful (I think there was a different setting in v0.84 only). I'd appreciate it if you upgraded to the latest version (it doesn't influence ongoing campaign in any way) - this way I'd get some feedback on how much changes I've made improve siege stage progression. As for swapping archers for melee on walls when siege equipment docks - it's not possible, melee units will come to help though.
    Have you checked the engage-dist for your general as I suggested? It'd be helpful.

    Regards
    i had not read it before, gotta check as soon as i get home, together with updating to your latest files and also restart a campaign.. mordor got all my borders covered and i didnt want to fight them XD
    but i will give a few rounds of brother fights just to test a little your AI

  6. #146
    Pope Gregorius I's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    according to the list of RC stake capable units you have in the original post, dwarven miners can plant stakes? this is not true for me and I have RC installed. do I need your AI stake script as well?
    "Have mercy on me, O God, according to Thy great compassion. Your delight is not in horses, nor Your pleasure in warriors strength..."

  7. #147
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    It appears I haven't updated the stakes-capable unit list, will do in a second. Miners can't plant stakes anymore, the script doesn't influence that, it just deploys them if a unit has the ability - and that depends on PB's judgement.

    Regards
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  8. #148
    Pope Gregorius I's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    aha thank you much Germanicu5
    "Have mercy on me, O God, according to Thy great compassion. Your delight is not in horses, nor Your pleasure in warriors strength..."

  9. #149

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Is there a way to fix the behavior of skirmishers with spears (snagas come to my mind)? They run toward my lines and then continue to run forward and backward without ever throwing a single spear (I play the latest RC version).
    Last edited by Yarkis de Bodemloze; May 22, 2009 at 04:34 AM.

  10. #150

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    I'm sure you have done hard work, but I have to tell you that your post is a mess I understand nothing, too much v0.256 v1.21

  11. #151
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @Yarkis
    I've tested that a lot before and decided to leave this setting as it was at that point, as only some snagas were doing that in battle. Generally they do so because they're trying to attack units that stand behind main line of infantry (particularly of all of them are engaged), since they can't find another path, they run back and forth, often zig-zagging in the direction of one wing. Their range's been reduced lately as I see now, their unit size is 250, so it complicates the situation.
    There's not much space left for adjustments and any further corrections will lead to missile units not withdrawing on time when attacked by infantry, not speaking of cavalry - I'll see if I can find some balance here, I know a few solutions that may help.
    Edit: I talked to PB, we'll work on a satisfying solution, thx for reporting that.

    @Bayard
    I believe it needs some more reading than post that'd say "The best AI ever, download here, no questions plz", but it's not so bad... there are 2 main parts (basic battle AI and battle AI switcher) and some remarks. I think people deserve all that info, I'll split scripts and AI and see how it works.

    EDIT: 1st post cleaned up a bit, if someone thinks it looked better before, plz do tell.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 22, 2009 at 05:43 AM.
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  12. #152
    Decanus
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
    I'm sure you have done hard work, but I have to tell you that your post is a mess I understand nothing, too much v0.256 v1.21

    i think if u have RC then u just have to download this
    Battle AI Switcher script v2* est arrivé, download here: TATW v0.86 (3 AI sets) and here: RC+TATW v10.86 (5 AI sets) just download " 5 AI sets " n extract it n paste the all the contents of folder except the data folder in ur \Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age.... after that open the data folder of the file u downloaded n copy the contents in it n paste it in \Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data...

    thats it...u r ready to go now....hope this helps u

  13. #153
    Decanus
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    why cant i vote for the above poll....is it bcoz i m new to the cmm

  14. #154

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    @Yarkis
    I've tested that a lot before and decided to leave this setting as it was at that point, as only some snagas were doing that in battle. Generally they do so because they're trying to attack units that stand behind main line of infantry (particularly of all of them are engaged), since they can't find another path, they run back and forth, often zig-zagging in the direction of one wing. Their range's been reduced lately as I see now, their unit size is 250, so it complicates the situation.
    There's not much space left for adjustments and any further corrections will lead to missile units not withdrawing on time when attacked by infantry, not speaking of cavalry - I'll see if I can find some balance here, I know a few solutions that may help.
    Edit: I talked to PB, we'll work on a satisfying solution, thx for reporting that.
    Regards
    I changed <missile-strength-base-priority-modifier>0.001</missile-strength-base-priority-modifier> to 0.0 and it helps a lot because the skirmishers always tried to hit my missile units behind my frontline. They now target the frontline units instead as long as these are not occupied which is more realistic anyway.

  15. #155
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis View Post
    I changed <missile-strength-base-priority-modifier>0.001</missile-strength-base-priority-modifier> to 0.0 and it helps a lot because the skirmishers always tried to hit my missile units behind my frontline. They now target the frontline units instead as long as these are not occupied which is more realistic anyway.
    Yep, that's one of changes I'd try myself, gg .
    Edit: That needs some testing, in case thit statement looked overoptimistic.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 23, 2009 at 02:24 AM.
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  16. #156

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    2 things I noticed while defending seiges, TATW 1.1 no submods: Sometimes when my units get routed they run towards the center but stop
    on the way and just stay there. They are routed so I can't click on them. They aren't stuck in a corner/wall or anything. They often move to the center at some later point in the game but they're stopped for a long time.

    At the end of a seige when I send out cav to run down routers I have seen this happen a couple times: The cav targets the routing unit and runs up to them. Then it stops, goes to 'ready' status, and just waits right next to them doing nothing.

    Neither of these things I remember from M2TW.

  17. #157

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    hi again.

    latest battle AI sally out. (total units in battle = 6, 2 mine, 4 theirs)

    i surround with cav and go through open door to plaza center.

    sooner or later they come back. timer turns off as i run through another door and out.

    then they sally out again. battle time goes on.

    they never tire, but my cav goes inside again. this time i lose the plaza voluntarily again, but i dont go out of the city.

    and they just stay in hte plaza waiting. forever.

    if i just let the game go on with high speed there, they will lose the battle.

    in fact, they did, i went out with my cav to the corner of the map to see if i could beat them with the plaza timer,
    but battle time run out first. declared a draw and i took the city.
    Last edited by ivanhoex; May 22, 2009 at 03:51 PM.

  18. #158
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul >Update May 19<, Battle AI Switcher plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW

    @xor0
    No battle AI or pathfinding setting is likely to cause such behaviour, I believe those issues have been present in the game since initial release, not much can be done about units getting stuck, it's a matter of poor framework.

    @ivanhoex
    Looks like a pretty exploit I haven't seen before, I'm pretty convinced there's no good solution to that (if there's any at all).

    Regards
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  19. #159
    xeryx's Avatar Follow the White Rabbit
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarkis View Post
    I changed <missile-strength-base-priority-modifier>0.001</missile-strength-base-priority-modifier> to 0.0 and it helps a lot because the skirmishers always tried to hit my missile units behind my frontline. They now target the frontline units instead as long as these are not occupied which is more realistic anyway.
    Yes, you are correct, by putting a >0< there you disable this line. Which them puts the AI into a different targeting mode. But disabling this line is really not the best possible solution, can you figure out another alternative, that might give you better results? Remember ARCHERS are a very Definitive threat, if not taken care of swiftly.

    The default value of .001 will always make the AI target missiles..ignoring the other units.

    But don't listen to me..go ahead and test it.
    Last edited by xeryx; May 22, 2009 at 11:09 PM.
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  20. #160
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 plus AI Scripts for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by xeryx View Post
    Yes, you are correct, by putting a >0< there you disable this line. Which them puts the AI into a different targeting mode. But disabling this line is really not the best possible solution, can you figure out another alternative, that might give you better results? Remember ARCHERS are a very Definitive threat, if not taken care of swiftly.

    The default value of .001 will always make the AI target missiles..ignoring the other units.

    But don't listen to me..go ahead and test it.
    Default (vanilla kingdoms) value was 0.003...
    As I said, it was one of possible solutions, but it was a good user-attempt to tackle that problem.
    PB is already making some changes, with slight adjustment of skirmishing on my side performance will be very good.

    Regards
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