View Poll Results: Would you like enemy AI reinforcements (when AI is more powerful) to:

Voters
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  • join main AI army?

    32 44.44%
  • attack player?

    28 38.89%
  • do something else? (please post feedback)

    2 2.78%
  • plant potatoes and watch Middle-earth pawn Central Europe on the market?

    10 13.89%
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Thread: ReallyBadAI Battle System +Hardcore +Settlements v5.7 >Oct 17< ### New Imladris AI ### incl. Battle AI and Content Switcher

  1. #101

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    It's 40 in my files..


  2. #102
    Germanicu5's Avatar Will buy spare time...
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Ah yea, one of variations of AI switcher. You can either edit it in all AI sets or put "rem" before wscript command in TATW.bat and edit the set that's in the data directory only.

    Regards
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  3. #103

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Playing TATW 1.1 with no submods. Re Lowlander's point: Enemy sieged with 2 rams, They only brought up 1 to start the battle though. I charged it with cav, they dropped it. BUT - they then went and got the second ram and broke down the gate with it! In zillions of sieges with M2TW + mods I never saw them do that, so good job!

  4. #104

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    German I tested it with 70 and it worked OK I guess.. the units turned around for a moment before charging though every time... I think I'll go with 60 next and see what happens.

    EDIT: Would there be anyway to just make the AI suicide charge? In all seriousness I think it would work best, the AI can't pull of intricate moves very well anyway... right now I can just suicide charge on VH and win in practically any given situation.


  5. #105
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    I've used values between 40 and 80 during various stages of development, so anything up to 80 should be relatively decent.

    Regards
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  6. #106

    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @john snow

    if i tried to suicide charge using harad i would get my as* handed to me in seconds

  7. #107
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanhoex View Post
    @john snow

    if i tried to suicide charge using harad i would get my as* handed to me in seconds
    Not with dwarves on shield wall ;d

    Wait, crap, AI doesn't use shield wall ;s

    One abuse less for AI I guess ...
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  8. #108
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilla View Post
    Not with dwarves on shield wall ;d

    Wait, crap, AI doesn't use shield wall ;s

    One abuse less for AI I guess ...
    Hmm... how about this:
    AI Shieldwall Script v0.1
    - for testing, not integrated with stakes yet (easily doable ofc), just replace the stakes section in the bottom of campaign_script.txt
    - sets all AI units with shield_wall ability to that formation
    - then reforms them to fill the gaps between units
    - only executed when AI is defending, battle odds are less than 1.5 in favour of AI and it's not a siege
    - formation can be adjusted later (the current release uses formation found in vanilla TATW)

    Feedback highly seeked!
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  9. #109
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    Hmm... how about this:
    AI Shieldwall Script v0.1
    - for testing, not integrated with stakes yet (easily doable ofc), just replace the stakes section in the bottom of campaign_script.txt
    - sets all AI units with shield_wall ability to that formation
    - then reforms them to fill the gaps between units
    - only executed when AI is defending, battle odds are less than 1.5 in favour of AI and it's not a siege
    - formation can be adjusted later (the current release uses formation found in vanilla TATW)

    Feedback highly seeked!
    I might paste it to my campaign script and start a new campaign and give a feedback, but first I'm yet to confirm CTD bug with Dale so it will take some time. I guess picking up OOMM and going on a crusade against dwarves would be sufficient testing platform?
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  10. #110
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilla View Post
    I might paste it to my campaign script and start a new campaign and give a feedback, but first I'm yet to confirm CTD bug with Dale so it will take some time. I guess picking up OOMM and going on a crusade against dwarves would be sufficient testing platform?
    Yeps, thx. I'll start with possible issues: AI doesn't change formation during the battle, attacks and still uses shieldwall, uses stupid formation (that depends on formations file).
    I'll add a condition that triggers shield_wall only if specified % of army has the ability later.

    Regards
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  11. #111
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Yet more interesting scripting! +rep mate

    One issue though, it's sounds like they will be using shield_wall the way a poor player would - defensively.

    Really I think the AI would benefit from using shield_wall in attack, the only problem aside from the obvious smaller font line would be the speed they move at. If you could script them to enter shield wall at contact range or something like that, it would be very interesting indeed.
    Last edited by Taiji; May 19, 2009 at 06:23 AM.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @Taiji
    I did some tests with attacking AI and entering shield_wall at a given range before releasing v0.1, the problem is they get swarmed pretty easily. I think that could be countered by adding % of army capable of shield_wall condition and adjusting formations to stretch AIs line accordingly, I released the basic version to see if there's enough support for further development of this script.

    Regards
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  13. #113
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    I've tried making a formation with a second line of shield wall units after the first line spear/phalanx and it works quite well but it's not as effective as a player by any means. The problem is that for shield_wall to be effective the player has to be quite dynamic in the way they use it. One obvious issue with using it defensively is that a passive defence will get ripped apart by a missile based attacker, so you don't want that. If it's to be active but using shieldwall then it will be slow, too slow to respond effectively vs missile or cav.

    So far I really doubt that the AI can be forced into truly effective use of shield_wall to the point where including it as an ability is not just a big and fun advantage for the player.

    But I am very interested in what you've achieved and keen to see where you take it

  14. #114
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Just thought about something ... AI doesn't seem to be too effective while using units with spear wall ability mainly because they are slowed down in that formation and because they just stay there doing nothing, while rest of the army advances. What I wonder is would it be possible to make one or two units only use that formation only, and rest not using it (so they will move faster and engage in melee). Also, not sure if you can improve the guys at all, but I wouldn't mind if spearwall guys were actually doing something, e.g. pikemen slowly advancing and pushing my infantry line back. As they stand now, they are for most of the time idle. I mean your default AI, not the other profiles from switcher. I reckon they could march faster if some animation was changed in skeleton file, but I have no idea which ...
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  15. #115
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @Achilla
    I'll look into that, but generally there's no good method of scripting any behaviour for individual units (as their order is random) apart from general. I can imagine something like idle units attacking the nearest unit, but that's not very fail-safe. I think I can write a script telling them to start phalanxing only after they're ~120m away from player lines though.

    New AI is up, features new defensive formation and 3 different plaza capture requirements plus some other changes listed in the 1st post.

    Looking for more feedback on shieldwall.

    Regards
    Last edited by Germanicu5; May 19, 2009 at 01:50 PM.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    I still think you should consider making a small guideline or questionnaire as to what specific feedback you are looking for. I can't see "My unit of archers move from left to right while approached by melee unit." being all that helpful.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @Gaias
    I'll try to make some guidelines and link to them via 1st post, generally I'll attempt to explain any behaviour people think is bugged anyway, some of it is more or less hardcoded, but it's better to ask here than in other threads I guess.
    I'm still very interested in behaviour of supporting armies lead by AI, AI army behaviour during defensive/ofensive sieges, plus some scripts (incl. stakes and shieldwall) feedback/suggestions.

    Regards
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.85, Battle AI Switcher v*.81 and Scripts (Stakes etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    Yeps, thx. I'll start with possible issues: AI doesn't change formation during the battle, attacks and still uses shieldwall, uses stupid formation (that depends on formations file).
    I'll add a condition that triggers shield_wall only if specified % of army has the ability later.

    Regards
    Okay, tested it a bit. First it works (voila!). Since I was using vanilla tatw dwarves were a bit dumb, e.g. they are in shield wall formation, but 70% of their soldiers stand in middle letting their already engaged fellows die without backup ... maybe on RC it would be different. All in all, they seemed less effective on shield wall than on default formation. Again, not sure how it would look like over RC Their close formation made them also perfect prey for my Snagas so I guess the fact that they weren't more effective in melee but actually worse, combined with being easier to hit by projectiles didn't serve them to well. All in all, I don't feel like testing it more over vanilla. Personally I think it would be better to just tighten their formation to that of spear units instead and remove shield wall ability altogether. In RC their defense is already bombastic (5000 arrows killing 3 dwarves etc.) so it won't be an issue to them. They are more than able to withstand being outnumbered and encircled, I think shield wall is just useless ability wrongly implemented/ported from Rome to M2TW in first place.
    Last edited by Achilla; May 20, 2009 at 08:25 AM.
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  19. #119
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    @Achilla
    There might be a general problem with effectiveness of shieldwall for AI, I'm not a great fan of that formation at all. I think I'll limit the number of units using shieldwall to only a few and put them on flanks, I'll add several conditions to that too, but probably a bit later, as I'm focusing on more useful script atm.

    Regards
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  20. #120
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    Default Re: ReallyBadAI v0.86, Battle AI Switcher v*.86 and Scripts (Stakes/ShieldWall etc.) for TATW 1.1 and Real Combat+TATW 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanicu5 View Post
    @Achilla
    There might be a general problem with effectiveness of shieldwall for AI, I'm not a great fan of that formation at all. I think I'll limit the number of units using shieldwall to only a few and put them on flanks, I'll add several conditions to that too, but probably a bit later, as I'm focusing on more useful script atm.

    Regards
    Perhaps not a bad idea. I'm not too fond towards that formation myself, too.
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


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