Mulling Purchasing EU3 - Some Questions

[Musthavename]

Now, before everyone starts posting "BUY IT! BUY IT NOW!", please hold on a second. Essentially, i've got my Uni exams in the next few weeks, but after that i'll probably buy a game or a CD or something, and this has caught my eye for quite a while.

I played the Demo on Steam, which was sort've confusing without a manual and some of the Tutorials being closed off, but I did manage a sort've semi-working game with Portugal (conquering half of Iberia and starting to colonize Brazil), but a lot of things confused me. Anyway, onto some of the questions.

1) Actually purchasing the game. The only place i've seen that'll sell EUIII Complete in the UK is Amazon, but what worries me is that the picture seems to be of German boxart. Can anyone say that they've bought it from there and it's been fine? (I trust it is, though i'd be a bit annoyed if I spent a tenner or so to buy something German, so i'm just asking incase).

2) Likewise, mods. Few questions there:
- Do mods work on the Steam version? I doubt i'll get it from there as there's no paper manual and it's £24, but i'll ask incase anyone knows.
- What mods are about and what are the good ones? All that's used around here are abbreviations so I don't really know where to start.
- Would you recommmend modding the game instantly or running through vanilla a few times? (I'm presuming the latter).

3) When playing the demo, i'd say, get England and go to war with the Scots. Now, I could reduce them down to only their capital region and vassalize them. However, I couldn't quite figure out how to annex or finish them off from there? Or is there just no way to do it in the demo?

4) The main thing that got me. Money. In all my games i've felt completly and utterly dirt poor. I'd see buildings that would cost 1000 or so gold being researched, a figure I never even came close to having. I'd build workshops everywhere and try merchants but I just couldn't figure out how to make huge amounts (other than letting myself get 5-6% inflation). Was there something I was missing or is this just the pace at which the game works?

5) Colonization. I got the hang of it. Kill natives, spam colonists till 1000 population and then you can build a fort and get some exports. But one thing did puzzle me. I found Gold, but seemingly no way to build any sort of a Gold Mine or anything like that, and it had no trade value. Was this just something missing in the demo or was I missing something obvious? Likewise, colonization was incredibly expensive at the start. Is it supposed to be, or was I just not making enough (going back to point (4)).

Thanks in advance for any answers.

[Ishoss]

Now, before everyone starts posting "BUY IT! BUY IT NOW!", please hold on a second. Essentially, i've got my Uni exams in the next few weeks, but after that i'll probably buy a game or a CD or something, and this has caught my eye for quite a while.

I played the Demo on Steam, which was sort've confusing without a manual and some of the Tutorials being closed off, but I did manage a sort've semi-working game with Portugal (conquering half of Iberia and starting to colonize Brazil), but a lot of things confused me. Anyway, onto some of the questions.

1) Actually purchasing the game. The only place i've seen that'll sell EUIII Complete in the UK is Amazon, but what worries me is that the picture seems to be of German boxart. Can anyone say that they've bought it from there and it's been fine? (I trust it is, though i'd be a bit annoyed if I spent a tenner or so to buy something German, so i'm just asking incase).

2) Likewise, mods. Few questions there:
- Do mods work on the Steam version? I doubt i'll get it from there as there's no paper manual and it's £24, but i'll ask incase anyone knows.
- What mods are about and what are the good ones? All that's used around here are abbreviations so I don't really know where to start.
- Would you recommmend modding the game instantly or running through vanilla a few times? (I'm presuming the latter).

3) When playing the demo, i'd say, get England and go to war with the Scots. Now, I could reduce them down to only their capital region and vassalize them. However, I couldn't quite figure out how to annex or finish them off from there? Or is there just no way to do it in the demo?

4) The main thing that got me. Money. In all my games i've felt completly and utterly dirt poor. I'd see buildings that would cost 1000 or so gold being researched, a figure I never even came close to having. I'd build workshops everywhere and try merchants but I just couldn't figure out how to make huge amounts (other than letting myself get 5-6% inflation). Was there something I was missing or is this just the pace at which the game works?

5) Colonization. I got the hang of it. Kill natives, spam colonists till 1000 population and then you can build a fort and get some exports. But one thing did puzzle me. I found Gold, but seemingly no way to build any sort of a Gold Mine or anything like that, and it had no trade value. Was this just something missing in the demo or was I missing something obvious? Likewise, colonization was incredibly expensive at the start. Is it supposed to be, or was I just not making enough (going back to point (4)).

Thanks in advance for any answers.

1) Gamersgate has it. I believe you can download a manual from it as well.

2)A lot of mods. Have no idea about Steam, though. I would run trough vanilla first personally.

3) 10 years after you vassalized them, and if you have +190+ relations you should be able to annex them. I don't know if it weren't included in the demo.

4) It's the pace the game works. Untill you've got a huge empire full of workshops you won't be making more than 100 ducats a year. Workshops are the key to a lot of income, however. Also note that merchants adds to your sliders, not your direct income. So merchants generally help your technology rather than income.

5) Gold is the greatest resource. Instead of adding trade income to a COT it adds direct production income which is better. Colonization isn't that costly in vanilla game but with expansions colonization is incredibly costly and slow.

[John I Tzimisces]

Ahhh making money (so this is in response to number 4).

There are many ways to get filthy stinking rich in EUIII. As a very small nation even you have good potential for becoming an economic powerhouse (though having a lot of well developed provinces certainly helps.

If you're small, I suggest this: Take "national bank" as a national idea. Then, click the trade mapmode. Fine which CoT you're in. Invest in trading there. as many merchants as you can without going into debt. Set your minting slider so that you're not gaining or losing any inflation (with the national bank idea if your slider is all the way to the right your inflation will decrease at a rate of .1 per year). And bam. You'll be gaining a considerable amount more money than otherwise. How does this work?

At the end of every year you collect your yearly tax income. Your monthly income is generally negative but if you have an economy that isn't being driven into horrible horrible bankruptcy you'll have a positive yearly income all things considered. By having national bank you can mint money without experiencing inflation, and you either completely or partially negate your monthly expenses (or even have monthly income GAIN!). By trading in centers of trade, you raise how much money you have to spend on things every month, be it research, stability, or MINTING. Thus by raising your minting slider that 10 percent, you'll be spending 10 percent less on things like research and stability, but you'll be gaining a good deal more money. If you receive 10 tax at the end of every year but you lose .5 every month due to expenses, you're only effectively gaining 4 gold a year. But...if you're losing 0 a month, you're gaining 10 gold a year. If you're gaining 1 gold a month, you're effectively gaining 22 gold a year.

That's a good strategy for small nations but it applies even more for larger nations as they make more money than smaller ones at the end of every year and may also have to contend with the fact they have larger armies which require more monthly expense.

[Fiyenyaa]

2) Likewise, mods. Few questions there:
- Do mods work on the Steam version? I doubt i'll get it from there as there's no paper manual and it's £24, but i'll ask incase anyone knows.
- What mods are about and what are the good ones? All that's used around here are abbreviations so I don't really know where to start.
- Would you recommmend modding the game instantly or running through vanilla a few times? (I'm presuming the latter).

I'd go through vanilla a couple of times first - it's pretty good with In Nomine patched.
As for the good mods, I like "Terra Nova", the "Whole World" Mod has a great map, and "Magna Mundi" is a very complete, if very, very hard mod.

3) When playing the demo, i'd say, get England and go to war with the Scots. Now, I could reduce them down to only their capital region and vassalize them. However, I couldn't quite figure out how to annex or finish them off from there? Or is there just no way to do it in the demo?

You can only annex a country through force if it has 1 region. If a country is your vassal, has been for 10 years, and you have 190+ relations with it, you can diplomatically annex it. The chances of success go up the longer it has been you vassal.

4) The main thing that got me. Money. In all my games i've felt completly and utterly dirt poor. I'd see buildings that would cost 1000 or so gold being researched, a figure I never even came close to having. I'd build workshops everywhere and try merchants but I just couldn't figure out how to make huge amounts (other than letting myself get 5-6% inflation). Was there something I was missing or is this just the pace at which the game works?

Money is pretty sparse at the start of most games, even for the major powers. By focusing on profitable regions (ones with a high base tax, gold, or a valuable trade good) and trying to ignore the less valuble ones, you can make a bit of money. The greater your tech (specifically production and trade), the greater your profit. Also, with merchants, it's best to focus on one Trade Center at a time, so don't go sending some all over the world at once. Owning a Trade Center yourself is also a great money maker.

5) Colonization. I got the hang of it. Kill natives, spam colonists till 1000 population and then you can build a fort and get some exports. But one thing did puzzle me. I found Gold, but seemingly no way to build any sort of a Gold Mine or anything like that, and it had no trade value. Was this just something missing in the demo or was I missing something obvious? Likewise, colonization was incredibly expensive at the start. Is it supposed to be, or was I just not making enough (going back to point (4)).

You don't necessarily have to kill the natives; if they have quite a low aggression value, then it may be worth keeping them alive, as they get added to your city's population once the colonists reach 1000.
Gold is not a trade good; it gives an income that isn't based on trade or production, but it's essentially it's own type. You don't need to build a gold mine, it's exploited automatically, as with any other resource. Check out the amount of money it makes on it's summary screen, compared to your other colonies.
Colonisation gets easier as the tech goes up, and you are generally making more money by that point, so yeah, colonisation is relatively cheaper in the later game.

[D.B. Cooper]

I haven't got much else to add on top of the other money-making tips, except that it's hard but rewarding because you actually worked for it and cultivated your economy.

[Musthavename]

After doing some research and finding out mods work fine on Steam I went ahead and bought it. Had a decent enough start with Portugal but I was getting dragged into too many wars and made a few other mistakes.

Then I decided to start as Tyrone (on Easy though). Managed to slowly take the Irish Minors while not having England attack me (having a Marriage probably helped there). I saved up some money and managed to get a revolt and then formed Ireland. Now, i'm trying to sit back, gain some trade and otherwise wait around until I can get QFTNW.

At the end of every year you collect your yearly tax income. Your monthly income is generally negative but if you have an economy that isn't being driven into horrible horrible bankruptcy you'll have a positive yearly income all things considered. By having national bank you can mint money without experiencing inflation, and you either completely or partially negate your monthly expenses (or even have monthly income GAIN!). By trading in centers of trade, you raise how much money you have to spend on things every month, be it research, stability, or MINTING. Thus by raising your minting slider that 10 percent, you'll be spending 10 percent less on things like research and stability, but you'll be gaining a good deal more money. If you receive 10 tax at the end of every year but you lose .5 every month due to expenses, you're only effectively gaining 4 gold a year. But...if you're losing 0 a month, you're gaining 10 gold a year. If you're gaining 1 gold a month, you're effectively gaining 22 gold a year.

Let me just check I understand this. Trade incomes go into research. Thus, by minting money, which effectivly takes money out of research, your converting that trade revenue into ducats, right?

Waiting around for it does feel a bit weird though. I'm thinking of trying to colonize the Azures if I can get there before Portugal, but otherwise I might try heading for Bermuda to try and get somewhere to get some Ports before trying to get some of the Caribbean. Any other suggestions or tips from anyone?

[Ishoss]

Do you have expansions or only vanilla game?

Anyways, forming Ireland isn't easy so well done.

[John I Tzimisces]

Let me just check I understand this. Trade incomes go into research. Thus, by minting money, which effectivly takes money out of research, your converting that trade revenue into ducats, right?

Waiting around for it does feel a bit weird though. I'm thinking of trying to colonize the Azures if I can get there before Portugal, but otherwise I might try heading for Bermuda to try and get somewhere to get some Ports before trying to get some of the Caribbean. Any other suggestions or tips from anyone?

You are correct sir. Be advised, however, that until a colony reaches a size of 1000 people, you have to pay colony maintenance. (the slider for this is on the same page as research and minting)
At full maintenance, your colony will grow at a rate of 50 people a year. At zero maintenance (IE you're just not maintaining them or paying any money to do so) you'll lose 50 a year. Since I believe the amount paid for colonial maintenance is a flat rate per month, if you have numerous colonies it gets extremely expensive. The upside of this is you can, if you make enough money a month so as to not go broke doing so, have a huge number of colonies, and not worry about sending colonists to them, as they'll grow on their own and become regular territories in about 18 years (colony starts at 100. That means you have 900 people to go. Divide by 50 = 18)

Also, you're lucky if you're going to colonize the Azores: their region as defined by the game is "Europe". Since you're also in europe, that means you don't need to have big ships for tariff income. Basically tariffs work like this: if a province is overseas and not in your continent (click the regions map to see what continent a province is in) you have to have as many large ships (not galleys or transports) as you do overseas provinces to get the full income of your colonies. It's meant to simulate protecting shipping lanes and whatnot.

[Darkarbiter]

You are correct sir. Be advised, however, that until a colony reaches a size of 1000 people, you have to pay colony maintenance. (the slider for this is on the same page as research and minting)
At full maintenance, your colony will grow at a rate of 50 people a year. At zero maintenance (IE you're just not maintaining them or paying any money to do so) you'll lose 50 a year. Since I believe the amount paid for colonial maintenance is a flat rate per month, if you have numerous colonies it gets extremely expensive. The upside of this is you can, if you make enough money a month so as to not go broke doing so, have a huge number of colonies, and not worry about sending colonists to them, as they'll grow on their own and become regular territories in about 18 years (colony starts at 100. That means you have 900 people to go. Divide by 50 = 18)

Also, you're lucky if you're going to colonize the Azores: their region as defined by the game is "Europe". Since you're also in europe, that means you don't need to have big ships for tariff income. Basically tariffs work like this: if a province is overseas and not in your continent (click the regions map to see what continent a province is in) you have to have as many large ships (not galleys or transports) as you do overseas provinces to get the full income of your colonies. It's meant to simulate protecting shipping lanes and whatnot.

With enough ideas and modifiers you can actually earn a fair bit more from overseas provinces then normal ones however.

Small ships also count for tariffs (i.e. iirc there is big ships, small ships, galleys and transports only the first two count).

portugal is set up for naval expansion/military/invasions etc because this is how they behaved historically, whereas france and castile etc (most mainland nations) are far more land oriantated - they still colanise and have ships and so forth but are much more likely to raise local troops to use rather than reinforce from overseas
thus as an island your 'safer' than perhaps would be otherwise

Castille and England are both in the center of the land v.s. naval slider.

[Raglan]

Castille and England are both in the center of the land v.s. naval slider.

indeed, but i was refering to the ai behaviour - determined by something different than policy sliders

[John I Tzimisces]

With enough ideas and modifiers you can actually earn a fair bit more from overseas provinces then normal ones however.

Small ships also count for tariffs (i.e. iirc there is big ships, small ships, galleys and transports only the first two count).

Castille and England are both in the center of the land v.s. naval slider.

eh yeah that's what i meant by big ships I guess. I kind of confuse calling them "big ships" when I should be saying "sea faring warships".

[Musthavename]

Do you have expansions or only vanilla game?

Complete, so I have IN effectivly. I've heard some issues about Steam not having the 3.1 patch, but apprarently i'm on V3.1 so as far as I can see everything's fine (considering 3.2 is Beta).

[Ishoss]

Ok - Then Portugal will get the Azores before you, because of a mission event. Portugal always get Madeira and Azores, Castille gets Canary Islands. Your best bet would be to nick Iceland off the Norwegians or get Greenland if you wan to colonize early. (Iceland is a crappy area though!)

[Musthavename]

Yes, i've noticed that about the colonies. I moved my explorer to the Azores to find Portugal already there, along with the other island near. But, I have managed to grab the canaries and got an Alliance with Castille. Also grabbed most of Scotland (except for Norway having some Isles the two southernmost provinces being Scottish & English).

Currently i'm planning a decisive war against the English, hopefully ending them before they get any colonies. Troop numbers are similar, but I do have the French & Castillans on my side, so i'm confident in a victory (albeit it may take several wars to effectivly assimilate them).

Thanks for the tip about needing large ships. Luckily i've got a few Carracks so i'll be alright for the time being, but that's incredibly useful to know.

EDIT: I was winning and had pushed down to Yorkshire or so, but for some reason now EU won't start up, so i'm going to have to resort to reinstalling it and losing the save.

EDIT: Got it working again. Save's fine.

[Ishoss]

Think twice about that war with England! If you're lucky Castille and France will send over 2-3k men each, if your unlucky they will tell you to off. If you can't take them alone then wait untill you can.

It's one of the week things in the EU AI, it rarely bothers to send allied troops over the sea.

[Gwyn ap Nud]

In all of my games they did! Portugal always sent tons of troops in my battles against Scotland.

[Raglan]

portugal is set up for naval expansion/military/invasions etc because this is how they behaved historically, whereas france and castile etc (most mainland nations) are far more land oriantated - they still colanise and have ships and so forth but are much more likely to raise local troops to use rather than reinforce from overseas
thus as an island your 'safer' than perhaps would be otherwise