Ships, cannons, gun layout and PFM.

[zowrath]

I wanted to change some guns on some ships and such, and I wonder what columns are what deck on the ship. And what deck layouts allow which cannons to be placed where?

My guess is, and please correct me, in PFM:

Cannon type 1: Quarter deck?
Cannon type 2: ?
Cannon type 3: ?
Cannon type 4: Forecastle?
Cannon type 5: Upper deck?
Cannon type 6: Middle deck?
Cannon type 7: Gun deck?

This is just my wild guess, although I am fairly certain about no. 5. Anyone know the specific details of this, it would help a lot

[The Vicar]

I don't know, but if you take the over-rate as your maximum, it would be 3 gun decks + quarter gun deck + fore gun deck

+ guns on fore and aft, so that they can shoot to the front & to the back?

[zowrath]

I don't know, but if you take the over-rate as your maximum, it would be 3 gun decks + quarter gun deck + fore gun deck

+ guns on fore and aft, so that they can shoot to the front & to the back?

There are too many gun columns A 1st rate had only 5 gun decks, counting fore and quarter. I wonder what those 2 extra's are. I'm trying to find out, but it's not easy.

EDIT: I am beginning to wonder if the gun columns are connected to some other file, and are like a marker for where they are placed and not necessarily same always....

[The Vicar]

Actually, if you look at the over-rate model, there are 5 distinct "sections" that have cannon-holes.

Plus those on deck, and you have 7?

[zowrath]

Actually, if you look at the over-rate model, there are 5 distinct "sections" that have cannon-holes.

Plus those on deck, and you have 7?

Over-rate model? I have no 3D Studio Max or anything like that to view models and such btw I just deal with text files

[shipmaster27]

Over-rate would be a heavy first rate.

[zowrath]

Over-rate would be a heavy first rate.

lol, doh. I was so far in to the file's I didn't even think to consider it. I thought about 3DS models Well, if that's true then the model is not accurate. And all 7 columns are used for different ships as well, so there is no pattern as I can see as to what goes where. That's why I wondered if the columns are linked to another file that says this column go there, and that column go here.

[The Vicar]

That is a really good point. None of the ships actually use all seven of the slots. And two of the ships, the 4th rate and the 5th rate, both of which are 2 decks, use different slots for what are obviously their main cannons.

[zowrath]

Using the model viewer to look at the models and compare what columns they use I am none the wiser. There must be a file that contains what caliber of guns go on what decks, and maybe those also are connected to these parameters somehow.

The 5th rate for example, uses Cannon Type 1, 4 and 5. 4 and 5 are likely the main decks, and 1 is most likely top deck aft.

The 4th rate, uses Cannon Type 1, 2, 5 and 6. Here 5 and 6 are likely the main decks, but there are no gun emplacements on the top aft deck. There are however Forecastle and gun holes at the lower rear of the ship. So then type 1 and 2 should refer to those. But that doesn't make sense compared to the 5th rate.

The 3rd rate is a strange puppy, it uses Cannon Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Here I guess 4, 5 and 6 are the likely main decks. There are also Forecastle, gun emplacement top forward, top aft and bottom aft, so four. But we only have 1, 2 and 3 left to distribute. Which again doesn't make sense compared to 5th rate and 4th rate.

The 2nd rate is even stranger, as it is one of the weakest ships and should be on par with the 1st rate. It uses Cannon Type 1, 5, 6 and 7. Likely 5, 6 and 7 are the main decks. It's got Forecastle and lower aft gun holes. But now we only have type 1 left to distribute. Again, does not make sense. Although I feel the 2nd rate is really wrong from the get-go.

So I guess it is not so easy as to just add and subtract guns. Well, subtract is easy I guess, but adding....I can't make heads or tails of it.

EDIT: Looking at the Xebec, which have only one gun deck and aft gun holes but uses Cannon Type 1, 2, 4 and 5 I just feel there is a file I am missing.

[The Vicar]

It's possible that it's defined in model itself. Because I sure haven't seen any other db files.

[zowrath]

It's possible that it's defined in model itself. Because I sure haven't seen any other db files.

I don't think so, as I've looked through it and can't find any reference other than those to the textures and such. Somewhere, in some file, are some parameters that define this.

I thought perhaps a weighing system, like out of 100 guns 80% are this, 10% are that and so on. Or 0.80 and 0.10. But that didn't work out either. It frustrating

[Takeda Shingen]

maybe they have a different layout for each ship?
or does this make no sense?

[zowrath]

maybe they have a different layout for each ship?
or does this make no sense?

Best way I can describe how I guess it is, is like let's say the Cannon Type columns are together like a shopping bag full of groceries and foods. The file I am looking for, or rather the parameters, are like the recipe for the dinner I know that made even less sense. I am so confused now I am blabbering

[Jack Lusted]

The number of funs on each deck is defined in the ship model. The 7 columns with gun types listed in them in the unit_stats_naval table are bowchasers, stern chasers, deck 1, deck 2, deck 3, deck 4, deck 5. Now generally the higher the deck above water, the lower the deck number. So quarter deck guns might be deck 2 whilst main gun deck guns deck 4. But that is not true for all models, off the top of my head I believe it is the 6th rates that have the lower deck guns as deck 3 or 4 or something and then quarter deck guns as deck 4 or 5 (at home so cannot check). And some ships have guns listed for gun decks they don't have. If you remind I'll post a list of what ship models have what guns on what deck tomorrow.

[zowrath]

Thank you for taking a load off my back, and clearing up my headache!

I eagerly await your post tomorrow!

While you're here, isn't the 3rd rate a bit over-gunned and the 2nd rate a bit under-gunned? Looking at the stats the 3rd rate has almost same gun rating as the 1st and heavy 1st rate

[Monkwarrior]

I prepared an excel page with the number and type of cannons, but unfortunately it is in Spanish.

Just in case it is useful:

[zowrath]

I prepared an excel page with the number and type of cannons, but unfortunately it is in Spanish.

Thank you, but not quite the thing I was looking for And my Spanish is non existent Lusted will hopefully make that post tomorrow.

[The Vicar]

What post would that be?

[Jack Lusted]

And here is the info on how many guns each ship model has on each deck, and how many of each hull panel type it has. Attached as a spreadsheet within the .zip.

[zowrath]

And here is the info on how many guns each ship model has on each deck, and how many of each hull panel type it has. Attached as a spreadsheet within the .zip.

Thank you so much, I'd give you a bottle of good red wine if you're here! At work now, but I think when I looked at the 2nd rate in-game it was missing 2-3 cannons in the model gun-holes though. What does the panels signify btw?


Perhaps this topic could be sticked? As this information is pretty valuable to modders I would think. And, looking at the spreadsheet I am baffled at why the 3rd rate has so high gun rating in its info compared to the other ships though. Some multiplier somewhere that is too high?



@the_vicar
The post above