The Great Spirit - Native American Addition Mod UPDATE VERSION 1.2 RELEASED! Empire 1.3 Compatible

[Demokritos]

Ok, tried to install the mod, as soon as I go to start a new campaign it crashes. Unselected it with Mod Manager and tried to stat a new Campaign again, crashed. In fact I have now removed all mods and did a validation with Steam and it still crashes when trying to start a new campaign :-(

Any ideas, I will be reinstalling, but I seem to recall I have seen someone else with this problem with a different mod, any one had this and know of the problem?

Cheers
Dono

And you have followed the installation instructions for TGS to the letter (two files going to the data folder of ETW, and the third into the data/campaigns/main folder)?

[Dono1979]

And you have followed the installation instructions for TGS to the letter (two files going to the data folder of ETW, and the third into the data/campaigns/main folder)?

Yep, the wierd thing was when I removed everything and changed the startpos back to original it still kept crashing, so not sure whether it was directly related to Great Spirit or if it just triggered the terminal crash?

Cheers
Dono

[Barbac]

Hi folks,

@ Dono1979
Are you sure you have changed to the original startpos.esf file and not a corrupted one ?
It has also happened to me but I was trying to load a saved game so I guess it was the cause.
It could be related to that file I suppose cause there is no reason you cannot start a NEW campaign
provided you have a valid startpos.esf
Hope you will sort it out
Barbac

[keminsky]

hi, great wotk u did on making native americans more active and dinamic!

i just have one doubt::: the apropriate load order with darthmod 1.9

1-darthmod
2-tgs
3-tgs darth addon??

or?

tgs
darthmod
tgs darth addon??

thank u, cos mod manager says it conflitcts, so i just want to know how it is better

[Irmo]

Can you do the UI flags for Cherokee and Comanche to match the flag on GC/ in battle?
Also, can you please post screenshots of the 1.1 update units?

They do, don't they?

Yes - they do - you may have another mod that edits flag0.dds and flag1.dds that may be affecting this (such as Imperium Globale, Regalia of Nations, Realistic Flag Set being the 3 you are most likely to have)

Yep, the wierd thing was when I removed everything and changed the startpos back to original it still kept crashing, so not sure whether it was directly related to Great Spirit or if it just triggered the terminal crash?

Cheers
Dono

We have quite a lot of people using the mod, and it working (me included until I started messing around with the region_slot_manager in the startpos too much, but that is only on my computer ). I don't think it will be the mod that corrputed the files - may be a problem with your computer, or your orgignal game files.

hi, great wotk u did on making native americans more active and dinamic!

i just have one doubt::: the apropriate load order with darthmod 1.9

1-darthmod
2-tgs
3-tgs darth addon??

or?

tgs
darthmod
tgs darth addon??

thank u, cos mod manager says it conflitcts, so i just want to know how it is better

Just a sec, will post a picture (I have added it to first post as well)

[Dono1979]

Reinstalled the game and applied the Mod, worked no worries. experimented and started installing Mods that I have used in the past that I know to work and soon found that once I have half a dozen or so installed (not active) then somehow the game will not allow me to start a new campaign. Even if I remove all evidence of the mods and delete the startpos and allow Steam to validate and reinstall, the game becomes corrupted somehow. Very strage!

But very relieved I could play the Great Spirit Mod. Lots of fun and a HUGE amount of potential for the future, especially once you get all your modding tools.

Cheers
Dono

[Dono1979]

Something that has stood out to me after playing for a while last night is that the reload speed for archers is quite slow. The rate of fire for a bow should be substantially higher then musket fire. The act of renocking an arrow compared to reloading a musket is so much simpler and smoother.

Someone with reasonable experience can normally let off 8-10 shots per minute in a volley, highly trained archers can double this speed. This is not google searching either, this is real. I am by no means an expert archer but I can still average around 10 shots per minute, definitely not accurate but still hitting a standard target, but in a volley you dont need accuracy. Some of the more skilled archers are rediculous, it is near on a continious stream of arrows, the best I have seen is 21 shots in a minute (yes that is just under a shot every 3 seconds).

how you would translate this to the game and keep it balanced I am not sure, but it then leads onto another issue. The ammunition levels are far too low. To carry over 60 arrows in a quiver was quite normal for medieval archers, although I suspect Native Americans wouldn't have had the high capacity quivers (only guessing) but I would still suspect that they would have carried 2 or 3 dozen at least, maybe even 4 dozen when knowing they were going to engage an enemy.

Perhaps increasing the rate of fire and ammunition levels but decrease the numbers of archers in the units? You cant really decrease the lethality of an arrow as they remained pretty effective at long distance as in close (not as accurate but still hurt as much). Without the numbers the effects would be minimised a little but would then be compensated again with the rate of fire. Maybe if you halved the average groups (150 down to 75) and made elite archer units smaller still?

Thoughts?

Cheers
Dono

[Vonwolfi]

Hey Irmo, some of the native skins I have done have preview pics are up on the link I mentioned earlier...

Let me know what you think of them!

[Irmo]

Something that has stood out to me after playing for a while last night is that the reload speed for archers is quite slow. The rate of fire for a bow should be substantially higher then musket fire. The act of renocking an arrow compared to reloading a musket is so much simpler and smoother.

Someone with reasonable experience can normally let off 8-10 shots per minute in a volley, highly trained archers can double this speed. This is not google searching either, this is real. I am by no means an expert archer but I can still average around 10 shots per minute, definitely not accurate but still hitting a standard target, but in a volley you dont need accuracy. Some of the more skilled archers are rediculous, it is near on a continious stream of arrows, the best I have seen is 21 shots in a minute (yes that is just under a shot every 3 seconds).

how you would translate this to the game and keep it balanced I am not sure, but it then leads onto another issue. The ammunition levels are far too low. To carry over 60 arrows in a quiver was quite normal for medieval archers, although I suspect Native Americans wouldn't have had the high capacity quivers (only guessing) but I would still suspect that they would have carried 2 or 3 dozen at least, maybe even 4 dozen when knowing they were going to engage an enemy.

Perhaps increasing the rate of fire and ammunition levels but decrease the numbers of archers in the units? You cant really decrease the lethality of an arrow as they remained pretty effective at long distance as in close (not as accurate but still hurt as much). Without the numbers the effects would be minimised a little but would then be compensated again with the rate of fire. Maybe if you halved the average groups (150 down to 75) and made elite archer units smaller still?

Thoughts?

Cheers
Dono

While I accept what you say is true - on the practice range, an archer can quite possibly fire about 10 archers a minute on a practice range - but remember something - these soldiers are in a battle. They have probably marched for quite a long time, are tired, and firing 10 - 12 a minute just amkes them more tired. While I do accept this may be possible for trained soldiers (such as the English longbowmen), I assume (maybe incorrectly) that not all of the Native Americans were such skilled archers.

Having said all of that, an archer should fire about 3 times faster than a musket - their base reload time (8 seconds) is a third to a quarter of that of a musketman (matters which type of musket), and their reload skill is the same or higher than the average musketman.

As for ammo, I think that they have enough to suitably represent their firing speed. An archer could only fire for a continuos 5 mins at top speed, and probably 10-15 at a slower speed. From what I have seen, archers do fire for this long on the battle.

Thank you very much for the suggestions though!

Hey Irmo, some of the native skins I have done have preview pics are up on the link I mentioned earlier...

Let me know what you think of them!

They are very nice! The only one I am slightly dubious about is the Huron MedicineMen, but apart from that - I love them.

Have put some more work up for you in the social group . Get on it .

[Irmo]

For the nexy update (whenever that comes out) we will have a reskin of the Iroquois and the Huron (at least) - and possibly more, thanks to Vonwolfi's excelent work! Will post some screenshots soon, or you can look at ToonTotalWar's thread, because he has also put Vonwolfi's skins in his mod. We ca all look forward to an eventual full re-skin of all factions, with different war paint, beads and feathers!

Thanks, Vonwolfi!

[Irmo]

Some previews for the skins (this is Iroquois):
NOTE : This is on low detail, because my computer can't hand;e higher - but this will look even better on higher graphic detail!

Braves:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Archers (some other units will have this skin as well):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mounted Musketeers (model used for various units):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Medicine Men:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mohawk Warriors (model used for all Mohawk units):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Iroquois Elites:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Irmo]

Got rid of the FOW bug for Cherokee, Iroquois and Pueblo! Wooo! Thank you very much erasmus!!!

And here is how it looks for Pueblo :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This will be in the next update, along with the re-skin

[erasmus777]

Got rid of the FOW bug for Cherokee, Iroquois and Pueblo! Wooo! Thank you very much erasmus!!!

And here is how it looks for Pueblo :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This will be in the next update, along with the re-skin

Awesome! Glad it worked for you.

[Vonwolfi]

Big update to pictures coming soon, and tons of new units in the next few weeks! check back often, pictures will be up in the next couple days here!

[Vonwolfi]

So for know guys it looks like we will be using several of these skins that I had already done on my own fairly casually...dont get me wrong, they look way better than vanilla and are more historically accurate, you will enjoy them trust me...

BUT, I will be working on all new sets of skins for all the major and minor tribes featured, and will be using historic reference as my main guide.. That means tops to bottom, when you see a tribem, there will be no guessing who you are looking at, and what part of the country your in, if your a veteran scout

As we plan right now, The appearance of the Nations will depend on the sub tribes of the Nations in question, and each unit of each nation will be made with an individual skin for authenticity as much as possible..

What i'm trying to say is stay Tooned all, we have assembled a group here I think that can cover all the bases, And I think you will be seeing some really interesting developments coming soon

[Irmo]

Looking forward to the skins, Vonwolfi!

[royfang]

Is it just my game or do the mounted archers fire their bows like firing muskets?

[Irmo]

I have seen that as well - it is because the animation at the moment is the same as the musket one. I will change it for next update.

Unfortunately, there isn't a 'bow_axe' animation, only a 'bow_sabre' animation, but it would probably be a good sacrafice - decent reloading arrow animation in excahnge for slightly worse melee animation.

[TWK]

I can't play the natives in the grand campaign, how to fix?

[Irmo]

As long as you have the startpos.esf, and have extracted it into your data\capaigns\main and make sure the startpos.esf you have downloaded is still called startpos.esf (not startpos - copy.esf or something it may have been called if you extracted but didn't replace).

Apart from that, there isnt much I can say, because it is all based on the startpos.