I hate the Sassanid's Empire....

[Giulio_Cesare]

Someone knows how to counter the Sassanid's cavalry? I use the Imperium Occidentalis...

They have many armies and defeated the Imperium Orientalis...I'm trying to block their ports to destroy their economy...I saw that they use many cavalry named "Savaran"

[Lord Willy]

yeah the savaran are Pretty Good ,in usual i kill them with the lanciari,BTW you are not the only one that hate the Sassie
non sei il solo..

[Giulio_Cesare]

Good idea the Legio Lanciari ....but I can't recruit them There are other effective unit that I can recruit in Italia or Nord Africa?
Sei italiano?

[Lord Willy]

try to Recruit More Spearmen as possible , i think that its the more effectiv way to kill them
Si sono Italiano...

[Giulio_Cesare]

try to Recruit More Spearmen as possible , i think that its the more effectiv way to kill them
Si sono Italiano...

That's ok, I try to kill them with Gothic Foederati and some units of Clibanari....I hope that this is the right way!!!!

[Rogue]

Well, the *best* tactic to defeat them is bridge battles + onagers. (which are MUCH more accurate in IB! That probably needs to be reduced for IBRR8)





Notice the onager going from 3 bronze chevrons -> 3 silver from all those Savaran!

However, if you consider that an exploit or have no bridge or onagers, try forming shieldwall lines of comitatenses (if you're the ERE/Orientalis, use Comitatenses Armatus) For the WRE/Occidentalis, I'd go with Auxilla Illyricani who can be recruited close to the ERE/Sassanids and have spears, and perhaps some Gothic Foederate Spearmen. Back them up with archers and the Savaran will eventually try to break your shieldwall and you can surround and decimate them with heavy cavalry. (There's a ton of heavy cavalry mercenaries availible in Armenia or Mesopotamia, which are usually cheaper and better than anything the WRE can field.)

Elephants are excellent targets for onagers, who will usually make them run amok with one volley, or massed fire arrows or skirmishers as traditional.

If you have a good economy, Sassanid elite stacks can usually be bribed for ~130-150k denarii if led by a captain. Assassins are also useful for reducing the amount of general's bodyguard free cataphracts.

Also, where is the Lanciarii AoR anyway?

[julianus heraclius]

I think you will find that the Savaran are toned down a bit in both IBRR and IJV3.0. I can't speak for IBRR but it will be harder to gain Artillery in IJV3.0 as it wasn't really used much in pitched battles in this period, more for sieges.

[Dark_horse_spirit]

Spearmen, Load up on the spears. I would rather have 18 units of spearmen a bowman and a generals unit. It is not very glamorous but will usually do the job against Savaran. With this set up you will need to center your general so he can rally troops and support the faultering. I have with this kind of set up had a general go from 1-2 bronze chevrons to 1-2 gold.

DHS

[Gäiten]

Another very suitable unit against Clibinari will be in V8 ... diverse slingers.

[Valentinian Victor]

I'm beginning to wonder if we are not making Sasanid cavalry rather more powerful than they actually were. Festus states that Constantius II fought 12 battles against the Sasanids, 2 in person. Only one of these battles ended in a decisive victory, and that was in the Roman's favour. So, either Sasanid cavalry was ineffective, or they kept their distance and 'shower shot' at the Romans, and when they did close they got a beating.
Ammianus similarly tells us that the vast majority of battles between the Romans and Sasanids ended inconclusively. However, this may well be a different matter where Sasanid cavalry met armies that did not have decent infantry in any numbers. How did Sasanid armies fare against the North Eastern Stepp Tribesmen?

[Imperial Fist]

Actually Savaran Knights were rare in the persian army, cause only the nobility was allowed to serve in this units. Especially the reinforcement of this superb cavalry was difficault. The training began very early for the horsemen and the accommandation was only possible after the candidats had proven themselves wearthy.
The maintenance was another reason that made them not an ordinary piece of warfare. The expensive armor, high quality arms, the best horses the persian empires could offer, the long training. If im starting to think about it, and then compare them with other elite cav in the history of man, it seems not very realistic that a unit of this guys is as cheap as some auxilia unit of the roman or byzantine army in the game.

[Gäiten]

I'm beginning to wonder if we are not making Sasanid cavalry rather more powerful than they actually were. Festus states that Constantius II fought 12 battles against the Sasanids, 2 in person. Only one of these battles ended in a decisive victory, and that was in the Roman's favour. So, either Sasanid cavalry was ineffective, or they kept their distance and 'shower shot' at the Romans, and when they did close they got a beating.
Ammianus similarly tells us that the vast majority of battles between the Romans and Sasanids ended inconclusively. However, this may well be a different matter where Sasanid cavalry met armies that did not have decent infantry in any numbers. How did Sasanid armies fare against the North Eastern Stepp Tribesmen?

I see it in a different way.
The epic battles between Shapur II and Constantius II were relatively inconclusive.
The Roman strategy was generally more defensive, relying on their powerful fortress line in stopping the Sassanian juggernaut.

Generally that worked. Here the Romans did have their great victories (as to the three Sieges of Nisibis), however, the Romans lost many important fortresses and were slowly losing the initiative.
It is interesting that the Sassanians won more open battles than the Romans in that conflict.

I do not believe that the Savaran were as bad in melee battles as many Roman writers reported. Their training included many melee weapons and especially Shapur II did both improve and increase their training in that. Their tactics in the 4th century were more melee-orientated with powerful lance charges so getting close as fast as possible supported by horse archers than before.

Like later medieval knights (their tactics and strategies can be liken to those of the Savaran) proved heavy armored cavalry can fight infantry very effectively. And the current Sassanian military was of a more combined nature.

These heavy and superheavy lancers were supported by horse archers, heavy and light infantry, foot archers, slingers and so on. Furthermore the Sassanians had many vassals and mercenaries among their forces as to the Kushans, Indians, Daylamis, Sughdians and so on who gave the army flexibility.

------
Against the Central Asian tribesmen, IMHO, the Sassanians prevailed. However, for them the Central Asia frontier was more important than the Roman frontier. Here they had to fight very dangerous enemies, who introduced far more advanced and new fighting technologies, tactics and strategies than the Romans.

The most humiliating defeats they had to suffer were the disastrous wars fought by king Peroz I versus the Hephtalites/White Huns in the 5th century. Here the Sassanians were totally crushed and almost their realm annihilated. They discontinued the superheavy lancers and fielded the composite cavalry.

That is especially interesting because after catastrophe that the Sassanians began a very intense reforming program of military and civilian matters.

Contrary to that are the great Sassanid victories won by Shapur II versus the Chionites, by Barham V Gur versus the Hephtalites, by Khosrow I versus the Hephtalites in alliance with the Turks, by Barham Chobin versus the Turks and Smbat Bagratuni versus the Turks.

So IMHO I believe that the Sassanians had the better in their conflicts with the steppe nomads, but if their system stagnated as in the 5th century, they met disaster in every conflict.

[Gen.jamesWolfe]

I use guile, ambush, and archers to do the dirty work. I use lakhmid arabs though, so I can't help you as a roman

EDIT: @ Gaeiten: I was under he impression that the humiliation in the 5th century was nothing to the mid 7th century...

[frontier-auxilia]

I'm beginning to wonder if we are not making Sasanid cavalry rather more powerful than they actually were. Festus states that Constantius II fought 12 battles against the Sasanids, 2 in person. Only one of these battles ended in a decisive victory, and that was in the Roman's favour. So, either Sasanid cavalry was ineffective, or they kept their distance and 'shower shot' at the Romans, and when they did close they got a beating.
Ammianus similarly tells us that the vast majority of battles between the Romans and Sasanids ended inconclusively. However, this may well be a different matter where Sasanid cavalry met armies that did not have decent infantry in any numbers. How did Sasanid armies fare against the North Eastern Stepp Tribesmen?

Well i wouldn't go as far to say that the Sassanid cavalry were just a bunch of guys in fancy armour there for the show. As a matter of fact they were quiet capable. In Battle of Callincium a Roman army 25000 men strong under Belisarius was defeated by a Sassanid force half its size. The battle was generally a cavalry engagment but despite being heavily outnumbered and facing one of the best general of late antiquity, the Sassanid army broke the Roman's right flank, force the Roman center to the left and drive them all into the Euphrates.

So the Sassanid army was still a force to be reckoned with.

[Gäiten]

In mid 7th century that was rather an annihilation than a humiliation, IMHO

[Gen.jamesWolfe]

In mid 7th century that was rather an annihilation than a humiliation, IMHO

we didn't really annilate the persians-they still exist you know

[Gäiten]

I meant the Sassanian dynasty, however ... ... indeed, you are correct.

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

Gothic Foederati take 0 turns so you can spam and they are good against all cavarly but always fight the battle your self as auto resolve is crappy aginst the sassanids.

[frontier-auxilia]

I don't think Savarn should be toned down or nerfed. Seeing higher upkeep cost and lesser number of them will be excellent ways to create more historically realistic army. Asking for them to be nerf however is like asking for the Spartans to be nerfed.

[Gäiten]

The Savaran are and will be the best heavy cavalry units in the game, however, there will not be as many units of them as in the actual game.