Islam in Britain and South Asia

[Babur]

Islam in Britain and South Asia
A single space

Apr 30th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Theologically as well as socially, Muslims in Britain and their countries of origin form a seamless whole


Corbis

TWO government ministers, both practising Muslims, met in Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan, in April and agreed to co-ordinate their efforts to broaden the curriculum at religious schools. A set of teaching materials would be sent out to madrassas with the aim of enriching the diet. As well as learning the Koran, pupils would be taught how Islam was compatible with citizenship.
This approach, the ministers decided, would work well in their respective countries, Britain and Pakistan. Admittedly, the role played by madrassas in the two places is different. In England’s smokestack cities, they are frequented by Muslim children as a supplement to state schooling. In the slums and refugee camps of Pakistan, they offer a meal and an education of sorts to boys who would otherwise be illiterate.

But in both countries, the ministers agreed, madrassas at their most deficient can leave the young open to extremists. That is not just because of what they teach, more because of what they do not, such as how to live peaceably with those who follow a different faith or just another form of Islam. As the Pakistani official told his British counterpart, the cohesion minister, Sadiq Khan, inadequate theology and terrorism can be points on a single spectrum.

Not just for security types and sociologists, but also for theologians, Britain and its ex-dominions in South Asia are virtually a single entity. Schools of Islam that emerged in India as a reaction to the British raj are now vying for influence in the north of England. The passions generated by the Bangladeshi variety of Islamism are as lively in London as they are in Dhaka. Anybody who hopes for stability and social peace in the Muslim parts of South Asia has to keep an eye on the Islamic scene in Britain. The reverse also applies. The flow of South Asian imams to Britain has recently slowed, but in an internet age there are other ways for ideas to travel.
Whenever intra-Muslim tension flares in Pakistan—for example, with the trashing of a Sufi shrine or the takeover of a mosque—Britain’s authorities watch for tension in English cities. And the war now raging between the Pakistani government and Taliban rebels is affecting the mood among British Muslims. How exactly may depend on where they come from, geographically and theologically.
Life would be easier for students of Anglo-Asian Islam if one theological movement always produced moderates and another always led to extremism. But things are never that straightforward. As Philip Lewis, a Bradford-based writer on British Islam, puts it, “In all schools [of Islam], there are some individuals playing a constructive role.” And in virtually all schools there are some doing the opposite.
Still, in their Islamic scenes Britain and Pakistan do have one simple thing in common: religious education is dominated by purist teachers, who trace their roots to the Indian town of Deoband where an Islamic place of learning was founded in 1866. Designed to instil and spread a rigorous form of faith (robust enough to survive colonialism and the “corrupting” influences of other cultures), the Deobandi philosophy sets austere rules for personal behaviour. It sees the veneration of saints, and even excessive attention to the Prophet, as a distraction from God.
Among its offshoots are the Tablighi Jama’at, a huge, worldwide missionary movement (strong in Yorkshire and London), in which lay people help to propagate the idea of a pious life. And another offshoot of the Deobandis, as critics always note, is the Taliban, as they emerged in Afghanistan and then in Pakistan.
But that does not mean all Deobandis, either in Britain or South Asia, support violence. Just as well, given that at least 16 of Britain’s 22 Muslim “seminaries” (in other words, places that offer intensive, full-time Islamic instruction from the age of 12 upwards) are of the Deobandi persuasion. Their curriculum is modelled on Islamic learning under the Mogul empire.
Tim Winter, an influential British convert to Islam, believes that for all their narrow intensity, the British Deobandi seminaries won’t foster violence: their ethos is cautious and traditional. But some alumni of Britain’s Deobandi institutions do advocate self-segregation by Muslims, especially where local indigenous culture is dominated by alcohol and drugs.
Anyway, in Britain as in Pakistan, a plurality of ordinary South Asian Muslims follows a different form of the faith: the Barelvi tradition, which celebrates shrines, saints and music. One pioneer of Muslim education in Britain is of the Barelvi school: Musharraf Hussain, an imam who runs a school, mosque, radio station and magazine in Nottingham. He fears that among Britain’s Muslim establishment, sectarian splits are becoming “entrenched and fossilised”. Some Deobandis retain a deep sense of victimhood and grievance.
Clearly, some young British Muslims ignore the sectarian issues that gripped their parents. Sometimes this reflects secularisation. Sometimes it reflects the opposite: belief in a “global umma”, or community, that differentiates all Muslims from all non-believers. Still, the Nottingham imam has observed one unexpected side-effect from the turmoil engulfing Pakistan. Many British Muslims, he thinks, will “move on” in a healthy way. They will give up the dream of resettling in South Asia and put down firmer roots in Britain.
A harsher message is emerging from some mosques in the north of England, especially in places like Burnley where many have roots in the war zone on Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan. The plight of people fleeing the region is keenly felt. Many blame Pakistan’s government, not the rebels. “People think the Pakistani government is fighting not for itself, but for American interests,” says Abdul Hamid Qureshi, the chairman of the Lancashire Council of Mosques, which groups Muslims of all shades. People in an angry and defensive mood will hardly welcome Gordon Brown’s pledge, on April 29th, to work with the Pakistani army to fight terror. Neither will they take too seriously the prime minister’s vow to boost education and ease poverty on Pakistan’s border.
British Muslims, who number at least 2m, can amaze their cousins from South Asia with their religious conservatism. One reason is the high incidence of migration from poor, rural parts of South Asia, such as Mirpur in Kashmir and Sylhet in Bangladesh. In Bangladesh the fortunes of the Islamist Jamaat-e-Islami party plummeted in last December’s election. But the movement can still attract second- and third-generation youths of Sylheti origin in London, who know little of the group’s record at home. Some British-based Bangladeshis are dismayed by the influence the Islamists enjoy in the diaspora.
Worry over radicalism made in Britain extends to Bangladesh, too. In March the Bangladeshi authorities raided a madrassa that was full of guns and ammunition. It emerged that this supposed school had been financed and run by a charity based in Britain. There are some institutions that no teaching material will correct.
http://www.economist.com/world/inter...ry_id=13579713

The conservatism of British born Muslims here sometimes amazes me.I think that something needs to be done about it soon.

[removeduser_487563287433]

England's smoke-stacked cities?

The does that mean? Islam in the time of Dickens?

[Babur]

England's smoke-stacked cities?

The does that mean? Islam in the time of Dickens?

nah maybe they meant that some Muslims here are backwards, I am not saying all .

[Arjun]

good article.

im at a loss to understand how religion can create a bond between people who have no cultural/social ties together. ..well i can understand an Irish American supporting his cousins across the ocean or a Greek supporting the Greek Cypriots; but for someone to support another, from a totally different background just because they share the same religion is really surprising to me. but then again i guess it does exists as we see it all the time. but it does not make any sense imo though....strange ties that bind indeed.

[Babur]

good article.

im at a loss to understand how religion can create a bond between people who have no cultural/social ties together. ..well i can understand an Irish American supporting his cousins across the ocean or a Greek supporting the Greek Cypriots; but for someone to support another, from a totally different background just because they share the same religion is really surprising to me. but then again i guess it does exists as we see it all the time. but it does not make any sense imo though....strange ties that bind indeed.

I personally thought that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis wouldn't like eachother because of what happend in 1971 but meh I guess lol.Yeah these ties do seem a bit odd to me.

[Romano-Dacis]

". That is not just because of what they teach, more because of what they do not, such as how to live peaceably with those who follow a different faith or just another form of Islam."
Islam teaches this?
Strange how this "sin of ommission" never resulted in Christian extremism. I don't recall Church-run Sunday schools producing too many extremists. Interesting how it seems Islam is the only one affected by "what they don't teach."

[The Fishman]

". That is not just because of what they teach, more because of what they do not, such as how to live peaceably with those who follow a different faith or just another form of Islam."
Islam teaches this?
Strange how this "sin of ommission" never resulted in Christian extremism. I don't recall Church-run Sunday schools producing too many extremists. Interesting how it seems Islam is the only one affected by "what they don't teach."

That's because western society teaches those values, so religion teaching them as well would be preaching to the quior. Whereas British Muslims are more likely to be suspicious of the west and reject all western things as unislamic. If religious schools reach tolerance it confirms to Muslims that these are in fact Islamic values and therefore removes such suspicions.

It's interesting seeing a western article mentioning the Barelvi-Deobandi conflict. That's a very major thing in South Asia and amongst south Asian Britons, but more emphasis tends to be placed on the conflict between the Taliban and 'moderates'.

Deobandis are a sect of Hanafi Sunni Muslims. They are a reformist movement and are in some ways similar to the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, though today they are much less extreme. They are generally more moderate and modernist than Barelvis, but in some matters they are stricter. Deobandis also have some connections to the Taliban, though their leadership now rejects terrorism.
The Barelvi movement was founded as a counter-reform movement to stop the Deobandis. Barelvis are very traditionalist and socially conservative compared to Deobandis, but are less interested in political violence and terrorism. Barelvis are very sectarian, which paradoxically limits their propensity for violence since they regard terrorism as something their Deobandi enemies practice.

[Babur]

That's because western society teaches those values, so religion teaching them as well would be preaching to the quior. Whereas British Muslims are more likely to be suspicious of the west and reject all western things as unislamic. If religious schools reach tolerance it confirms to Muslims that these are in fact Islamic values and therefore removes such suspicions.

Aren't those religious schools funded from abroad?

It's interesting seeing a western article mentioning the Barelvi-Deobandi conflict. That's a very major thing in South Asia and amongst south Asian Britons, but more emphasis tends to be placed on the conflict between the Taliban and 'moderates'.

yeah this is true.

Deobandis are a sect of Hanafi Sunni Muslims. They are a reformist movement and are in some ways similar to the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, though today they are much less extreme. They are generally more moderate and modernist than Barelvis, but in some matters they are stricter. Deobandis also have some connections to the Taliban, though their leadership now rejects terrorism.

Well the Deobandi brand of Islam essentially rejects any form of "logic"

The Barelvi movement was founded as a counter-reform movement to stop the Deobandis. Barelvis are very traditionalist and socially conservative compared to Deobandis, but are less interested in political violence and terrorism. Barelvis are very sectarian, which paradoxically limits their propensity for violence since they regard terrorism as something their Deobandi enemies practice.

yeah which is good, I guess Tablighi-i-Jamaat is a part of the Deobandi sect of Islam?.In India I read something quite funny about them and how one of the writers in a magazine special about Islam in India said that they had asked him to stop his university education and join their group instead

[removeduser_052420]

I personally thought that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis wouldn't like eachother because of what happend in 1971 but meh I guess lol.Yeah these ties do seem a bit odd to me.

Lol actually Pakistanis and Bangladeshis get along quite well, contrary to popular belief. I remember in the first week of high school some redneck kid started a fight with me, and my bangladeshi friend jumped in and we beat the tar out of him. enough of the personal stuff...but anways, pakistan and bangladesh both have a love-hate relationship with "big brother" india, so that also helps improve relations between the two of us.

[Pickle_mole]

good article.

im at a loss to understand how religion can create a bond between people who have no cultural/social ties together. ..well i can understand an Irish American supporting his cousins across the ocean or a Greek supporting the Greek Cypriots; but for someone to support another, from a totally different background just because they share the same religion is really surprising to me. but then again i guess it does exists as we see it all the time. but it does not make any sense imo though....strange ties that bind indeed.

I think that religion is a very strong bond between peoples, in fact im going to church with an egyptian coptic christian (talk about being oppressed by muslims eh) this weekend even though we can barely communicate and im not coptic.

[Erik]

But in both countries, the ministers agreed, madrassas at their most deficient can leave the young open to extremists. That is not just because of what they teach, more because of what they do not, such as how to live peaceably with those who follow a different faith or just another form of Islam.

I think this is true, but the question is: what will happen when Muslim children don't go to a Muslim school but learn about Islam at home from their family or (worst) from their peers?
Won't the chance of them NOT learning certain things be much greater?

I remember a study showing that the vast majority of Muslim terrorist didn't radicalize at a Mosque or a Muslim school, but in small home run "study groups".
I think this is called the "bunch of guys theory", and I think it's in fact true for almost all forms of extremism.

[Accius]

Boris Johnson, writing in the Spectator after the July 7 bombings in 2005:

"...It will take a huge effort of courage and skill to win round the many thousands of British Muslims who are in a similar state of alienation, and to make them see that their faith must be compatible with British values and with loyalty to Britain. That means disposing of the first taboo, and accepting that the problem is Islam. Islam is the problem.


To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia — fear of Islam — seems a natural reaction, and, indeed, exactly what that text is intended to provoke. Judged purely on its scripture — to say nothing of what is preached in the mosques — it is the most viciously sectarian of all religions in its heartlessness towards unbelievers. [...]


The trouble with this disgusting arrogance and condescension [of Theo Van Gogh's killer] is that it is widely supported in Koranic texts, and we look in vain for the enlightened Islamic teachers and preachers who will begin the process of reform. What is going on in these mosques and madrasas? When is someone going to get 18th century on Islam’s mediaeval ass?"


Exactly what I was wondering. Enough is enough.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Boris Johnson, writing in the Spectator after the July 7 bombings in 2005:

"...It will take a huge effort of courage and skill to win round the many thousands of British Muslims who are in a similar state of alienation, and to make them see that their faith must be compatible with British values and with loyalty to Britain. That means disposing of the first taboo, and accepting that the problem is Islam. Islam is the problem.


To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia — fear of Islam — seems a natural reaction, and, indeed, exactly what that text is intended to provoke. Judged purely on its scripture — to say nothing of what is preached in the mosques — it is the most viciously sectarian of all religions in its heartlessness towards unbelievers. [...]


The trouble with this disgusting arrogance and condescension [of Theo Van Gogh's killer] is that it is widely supported in Koranic texts, and we look in vain for the enlightened Islamic teachers and preachers who will begin the process of reform. What is going on in these mosques and madrasas? When is someone going to get 18th century on Islam’s mediaeval ass?"


Exactly what I was wondering. Enough is enough.

When the west learns not to stick its dirty and money grubbing nose into other countries businesses and where the western businesses are not welcome. Too bad the west has already set a way called colonizing, I guess its time for the West to get its ass bitten from all the blood sheding and culture destorying.

As they say Karma is a .

[Arjun]

When the west learns not to stick its dirty and money grubbing nose into other countries businesses and where the western businesses are not welcome. Too bad the west has already set a way called colonizing, I guess its time for the West to get its ass bitten from all the blood sheding and culture destorying.

As they say Karma is a .

another classic TS post, quoted here for posterity

so basically this all boils down to religious fundamentalists trying to exact revenge huh?

[Accius]

When the west learns not to stick its dirty and money grubbing nose into other countries businesses and where the western businesses are not welcome. Too bad the west has already set a way called colonizing, I guess its time for the West to get its ass bitten from all the blood sheding and culture destorying.

Oh don't worry, us Western countries won't come knocking on your doors after we've emptied your region of all its oil to enrich our societies. Which, by the way, you have served as very useful lapdogs in helping us do. In thirty years time, i.e. in our lifetime, the Middle East will be like Africa is now: of no use to anyone else, not worth our attention, and constantly killing each other. And it is only a matter of time until Muslims start getting expelled from Western countries. Your fetid, primitive faith is not compatible with our modern way of life.

[Adhamh Ashashi]

Oh don't worry, us Western countries won't come knocking on your doors after we've emptied your region of all its oil to enrich our societies. Which, by the way, you have served as very useful lapdogs in helping us do. In thirty years time, i.e. in our lifetime, the Middle East will be like Africa is now: of no use to anyone else, not worth our attention, and constantly killing each other. And it is only a matter of time until Muslims start getting expelled from Western countries. Your fetid, primitive faith is not compatible with our modern way of life. But please, keep wiping your ass with your left hand, it amuses me to no end!

I am Muslim and fit in fine with Western culture. Sure I don't drink, or do drugs but still go out and have a good time.

You just need to leave your house and breathe a little air. How about you leave your computer, stop being so tough on this website and grow up and stop acting like a 12 year old. Everybody in the world should be treated same if they have done nothing wrong.

Please tell me, what have Muslims done to hurt you personally?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Oh don't worry, us Western countries won't come knocking on your doors after we've emptied your region of all its oil to enrich our societies. Which, by the way, you have served as very useful lapdogs in helping us do. In thirty years time, i.e. in our lifetime, the Middle East will be like Africa is now: of no use to anyone else, not worth our attention, and constantly killing each other. And it is only a matter of time until Muslims start getting expelled from Western countries. Your fetid, primitive faith is not compatible with our modern way of life.

Meh I could care less what a westernern sitting in his armchair going "Huff duuf" could say than I would any sane man. In fact, I'd consider some street dogs to have more manners.

[Thema'zandaar]

Oh don't worry, us Western countries won't come knocking on your doors after we've emptied your region of all its oil to enrich our societies. Which, by the way, you have served as very useful lapdogs in helping us do. In thirty years time, i.e. in our lifetime, the Middle East will be like Africa is now: of no use to anyone else, not worth our attention, and constantly killing each other. And it is only a matter of time until Muslims start getting expelled from Western countries. Your fetid, primitive faith is not compatible with our modern way of life.

If your "modern way of life" involves sucking others dry like a parasite, then the rest of the world is better off without it. Go ahead and do as you plan - once you've lost interest in other regions, you will turn upon your "modern" neighbours in order to find the resources you need and it is you who will be reduced to infighting and turmoil. Because this is your way of life and its far more abhorrent than anything any religion in the world preaches.

[Pickle_mole]

made me smile, thank you.

[Gertrudius]

Accius, you should revise your post in order to avoid disciplinary action by the mods. Invectives and slurs are no way to respond someone, no matter what they say.

Take it easy,