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  1. #1

    Default A new education system?

    So listen what this guy has to say about education and read the interview.

    Here's part 1 and part 2.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "We are educating people out of their creativity," is one of Sir Ken Robinson's more famous lines. It has gone viral along with many of his other often humorous thoughts on education.

    A decade ago, he led a national commission on creativity, education and the economy for the UK and was the central figure in developing a strategy for creative and economic development for the Northern Ireland Peace Process. He's been invited for his thoughts on creativity and education by Fortune 500 companies, federal and state governments all over the world and has been involved with several provincial governments in Canada.

    His latest book is called The Element: How finding your passion changes everything, in which he interviews several prominent people about how they discovered their passion and talents. He says it's remarkable to note how many of the people he has spoken with, from Cats' choreographer Gillian Lynne to former Beatle Sir Paul McCartney, passed through their formal education without really understanding what they were capable of.

    He is a critic of many governments who pooh-pooh the arts and joked that the Medicis, the powerful figures during the Renaissance, never went about generating the most creative region in the world by setting out a math strategy.

    He was the featured speaker on April 26 at a fundraising evening in Toronto for the Coalition for Music Education in Canada, and took time out to speak to GlobeCampus.ca.

    GlobeCampus: You've said that often education does not value what we're good at and that many leave school thinking that they were not very smart. Tell us about how schools sometimes can really get it wrong.

    Sir Ken Robinson: An awful lot of people go through a formal education without discovering their natural abilities. In a lot of systems of formal education, the curriculum is structured in a particular way so that certain sorts of disciplines are marginalized. If you happen to be good at the things that are on the margins of education, you end up feeling marginalized, too. Also, there is an increasing emphasis in schools on standardized testing. In these systems, the testers aren't really looking for examples of highly individual or creative abilities but looking to see if you know the standard answers. And the effect of that is, even for the disciplines which are apparently favoured, like science and math, there is an equally strong tendency to suppress creative thinking.

    GC: You would like to see schools have a richer vision of human ability and creativity. Can you tell us how this can start to happen?

    Sir Ken: All the great schools I know are unique. They may have to cover similar things but they do it differently. It starts with the school principal understanding the importance of their role in setting a tone and creating community and a mood, with a sense of possibility. And then it's about looking at each school and saying what is it here that may be inhibiting the real development of our kids, and do we have to do that, do we have to do it that way? Is there some other way we can do things?

    GC: You say that our education system is often unable to recognize the full spectrum of human talent in our young people and that this thinking is still connected to the industrial revolution.

    Sir Ken: The features of formal education are rooted in the manufacturing principles of industrialism. The organizational structure of education is very much like a manufacturing process. Kids are educated in batches by age. You're supposed to start at one end and the assumption is that, by the time you get out of it, you're a fully educated person. The whole mindset is that if you don't go to college and get a degree then your life's over. The fact is, the economic value of a college degree is toughening and the idea that getting a degree will clinch you a job for life has not been true for years. But we still act as if it were true.

    GC: Do performing-arts schools answer some of the needs for recognizing a person's natural vocation or do they, too, often miss out on a person's calling?

    Sir Ken: One of the things I always press for is a holistic view of education. But I'm equally concerned at the vitality of the other disciplines in schools. The real innovation and creativity always comes from people crossing borders, crossing boundaries, thinking differently and very often through the interaction of disciplines through applying ideas from one field into another field. The real vitality of intelligence and creative thinking is in making connections, not from keeping everything separate.

    GC: You say the older a person gets, the more frightened he or she become of making mistakes, and you point out that creativity needs that element of us sometimes being wrong. Can you explain why that is so important?

    Sir Ken: At the heart of creativity is a willingness to take risks, a willingness to experiment, a willingness to explore avenues that don't go anywhere and a willingness to be wrong. And if you're living in a culture of standardized testing, high-stakes funding, where mistakes are not tolerated and seen as a sign of mental infirmity, then you're breeding a contradiction right at the heart of the system.

    GC: For someone who is middle aged, do you think it's harder or easier for them to find out what they're really good at and what they enjoy?

    Sir Ken: There are lots of reasons why people don't do things they love to do or haven't explored things they may feel they have a natural aptitude for. By the time you reach middle age, you're surrounded by social networks, family, friends, sometimes children, and obligations. People have an image of you by then. If you say, look I'm going to head off in some different direction, you often face a room of raised eyebrows. You? You are going to be a flamenco dancer? Or study chemistry? What I always encourage people to do is to recognize: If not now, when? I think we all have a duty to ourselves to try and live a life that has meaning and purpose and fulfillment. And often that comes by following your own true north, accepting that life is not linear, that you can always go back, do a 180 and try something else. Much of the lives we live are a result of how we think of ourselves. And when we start to think differently, we start to see different options and possibilities.



    Here he is on TED. The full performance.

    So what do you think of his idea of "fast-food education"? That we stifle creativity in favor of fashioning another cog in the machine? Does this hinder our right to a life we want? What y'all think?


    I've seen people with all the opportunity forsaking it for a life of petty crime, drugs, meaningless sex and money, and I've also seen dirt-poor kids make the best of themselves. Hell, the American president is close to that.

    I happen to agree, as there is so much that can be gained, so much more equality, understanding of ourselves, and our past, that could be gained by a revitalized education system.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  2. #2
    Bovril's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: A new education system?

    There is a essay that is very famous amongst people who deal with educational theory by Ivan Illich called Deschooling Society that may interest people who like this article (and quite a lot of those who don't, I suspect). But it's quite long, so you may have to *gasp* make an effort. It can be read here.

    To the OP:
    That TED website is great isn't it. So much interesting stuff.
    Last edited by Bovril; April 29, 2009 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #3
    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: A new education system?

    okay, I can agree wit this guy.

    There's a bit of a problem when a high school senior has no idea of what he wants to do in life, and not experienced enough to know.
    I think subjects should be integrated. Somehow gets english into math. Not just a story problem.

    I also think that we fail to learn anything. It takes a person, scientists agree, six recollections of information in order for us to have it hard in our long-term memory. I took my calculus final exam and couldn't recall most of what was on it. That seems like a great disservice to me and I have wasted a lot of time. I think just a monthly review test would remedy that, but right now no one recognizes that. it's all about the standardized testing, and no teacher can use the time to actually make you KNOW the information, and not just memorize it for a test at the end of the week. Of course, I could also study for four hours a night and get the same result, but I simply dont' have the initiative to do so. Perhaps just do it up to middle school. By then it's either engrained into the kids' head to KNOW it and not just memorize for a test, or it's not, and there's no reason to beat a dead horse.

    Anyway, I agree with eveything the guy said and added my little bit.

  4. #4

    Default Re: A new education system?

    This is exactly what republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee was advocating.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A new education system?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Devil's Sergeant View Post
    This is exactly what republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee was advocating.
    Really? Well I'm all for Obama stealing that.


    And TED is awesome.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  6. #6
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: A new education system?

    So what do you think of his idea of "fast-food education"?
    I went through an education that "stifles" creativity. It's neither fast-food, nor fattening, nor does it taste good. It's not easy and it's oppressive.

    But it makes good assembly line workers and an effective student : teacher ratio of >35. I personally think that they should hire better teachers and fire those that don't make the cut.
    Older guy on TWC.
    Done with National Service. NOT patriotic. MORE realist. Just gimme cash.
    Dishing out cheap shots since 2006.

  7. #7

    Default Re: A new education system?

    That seems to be the real goal of education, just work the cogs, and if you have the money, go to the best schools... the BMWs or Mercedez' of schools.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  8. #8
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: A new education system?

    That seems to be the real goal of education, just work the cogs
    If you haven't realized it yet, public schools provide society with:
    - controllable people
    - controllable workers
    - controllable soldiers

    go to the best schools... the BMWs or Mercedez' of schools.
    It's to weed out the ants of societies and keep the queens happy.
    I wouldn't put BMW or Mercedes as description, though. Those cars are plummeting in quality.
    Last edited by sephodwyrm; April 30, 2009 at 06:00 PM.
    Older guy on TWC.
    Done with National Service. NOT patriotic. MORE realist. Just gimme cash.
    Dishing out cheap shots since 2006.

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