Version 2.0 RELEASED // Archaon's Loyal Allies // Compatible with TA:TW 2.1

[Archaon]

Er, did you use my strat file as a base? Just asking because all the reputation values are the same... I don't mind if you did but could I get credit? Or is it just an eery coincidence..

Hi mate - at one point i did test yours, but as i have kept a list of all the code i use in my posts above, i did not mean to use your reputation values at all, mine were meant to stay vanilla TA:TW..
(which means i have more than likely lost my vanilla TA:TW descr_strat.txt can someone send me one?)

I will fix the reputation so it shows Vanilla TA:TW as soon as i get the vanilla TA:TW file back.

sorry for any confusion - i respect your work!

While I think it is a good idea to make alliances more stable, I don't know how I feel about military access. Rohan was objectionable to the idea of Gondor armies in thier lands, despite the threat. But then again, it depends on if these modifications will promt ai armies to move up and attack the closest enemy army even if it is in your territory, thereby assisting you in battle such as in the later movies where the elves helped at Helmsdeep and Rohan at Minas Tireth.

it is not possible to give Rohan access to Gondor without the vice-versa.. sorry.

[Skeleton Of The West]

Here is the vanilla descr_strat.txt file of TA:TW.

[JonSnow]

faction_standings england, -1.0 slave
faction_standings england, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings england, -0.9 mongols
faction_standings england, -0.9 turks
faction_standings england, -0.9 moors
faction_standings england, -0.9 scotland
faction_standings england, -0.9 egypt
faction_standings england, 1.0 papal_states
faction_standings england, 1.0 france
faction_standings england, 1.0 hre
faction_standings england, 1.0 spain
faction_standings england, 1.0 venice
faction_standings france, -1.0 slave
faction_standings france, -0.9 mongols
faction_standings france, -0.9 scotland
faction_standings france, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings france, -0.9 moors
faction_standings france, -0.9 milan
faction_standings france, -0.9 egypt
faction_standings france, -0.9 turks
faction_standings france, 1.0 papal_states
faction_standings france, 1.0 england
faction_standings france, 1.0 hre
faction_standings france, 1.0 spain
faction_standings france, 1.0 venice
faction_standings hre, -1.0 slave
faction_standings hre, -0.9 mongols
faction_standings hre, -0.9 scotland
faction_standings hre, -0.9 moors
faction_standings hre, -0.9 egypt
faction_standings hre, -0.9 turks
faction_standings hre, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings hre, -0.9 milan
faction_standings hre, 1.0 papal_states
faction_standings hre, 1.0 england
faction_standings hre, 1.0 france
faction_standings hre, 1.0 spain
faction_standings hre, 1.0 venice
faction_standings spain, -1.0 slave
faction_standings spain, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings spain, -0.9 milan
faction_standings spain, -0.9 egypt
faction_standings spain, -0.9 turks
faction_standings spain, -0.9 scotland
faction_standings spain, -0.9 moors
faction_standings spain, -0.8 mongols
faction_standings spain, 1.0 papal_states
faction_standings spain, 1.0 england
faction_standings spain, 1.0 france
faction_standings spain, 1.0 hre
faction_standings spain, 1.0 venice
faction_standings venice, -1.0 slave
faction_standings venice, -0.9 scotland
faction_standings venice, -0.9 mongols
faction_standings venice, -0.9 turks
faction_standings venice, -0.9 egypt
faction_standings venice, -0.9 sicily
faction_standings venice, -0.9 milan
faction_standings venice, -0.9 moors
faction_standings venice, 1.0 papal_states
faction_standings venice, 1.0 england
faction_standings venice, 1.0 france
faction_standings venice, 1.0 hre
faction_standings venice, 1.0 spain
faction_standings sicily, 0.8 milan
faction_standings sicily, -1.0 slave
faction_standings sicily, -0.9 england
faction_standings sicily, -0.9 venice
faction_standings sicily, -0.9 france
faction_standings sicily, -0.9 hre
faction_standings sicily, -0.9 spain
faction_standings milan, 0.9 sicily
faction_standings milan, 0.6 turks
faction_standings milan, -1.0 slave
faction_standings milan, -0.9 france
faction_standings milan, -0.9 hre
faction_standings milan, -0.9 spain
faction_standings milan, -0.9 venice
faction_standings milan, -0.9 england
faction_standings scotland, 0.9 moors
faction_standings scotland, 0.5 mongols
faction_standings scotland, -1.0 slave
faction_standings scotland, -0.9 venice
faction_standings scotland, -0.9 hre
faction_standings scotland, -0.9 france
faction_standings scotland, -0.9 england
faction_standings scotland, -0.9 spain
faction_standings moors, 0.9 scotland
faction_standings moors, -1.0 slave
faction_standings moors, -0.9 hre
faction_standings moors, -0.9 spain
faction_standings moors, -0.9 england
faction_standings moors, -0.9 france
faction_standings moors, -0.9 venice
faction_standings turks, 0.9 egypt
faction_standings turks, 0.4 scotland
faction_standings turks, 0.6 milan
faction_standings turks, -1.0 slave
faction_standings turks, -0.5 france
faction_standings turks, -0.6 hre
faction_standings egypt, 0.9 mongols
faction_standings egypt, 0.9 turks
faction_standings egypt, -1.0 slave
faction_standings egypt, -0.9 hre
faction_standings egypt, -0.9 spain
faction_standings egypt, -0.9 venice
faction_standings egypt, -0.9 england
faction_standings egypt, -0.9 france
faction_standings mongols, 0.9 egypt
faction_standings mongols, 0.5 scotland
faction_standings mongols, -1.0 slave
faction_standings mongols, -0.9 hre
faction_standings mongols, -0.9 france
faction_standings mongols, -0.9 venice
faction_standings mongols, -0.9 spain
faction_standings mongols, -0.9 england
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 slave
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 sicily
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 milan
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 scotland
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 moors
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 turks
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 egypt
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 mongols
faction_standings papal_states, 1.0 england
faction_standings papal_states, 1.0 france
faction_standings papal_states, 1.0 hre
faction_standings papal_states, 1.0 spain
faction_standings papal_states, 1.0 venice

Updated the relations, there was a few (more like a lot...) errors in there, they're fixed now! Just copy and paste and then redo the columns and it should work!

[HOWLMAN]

Some help please...I must have missed something. After using all the changes from very first post everything looked great. Everyone was allied with whom they were suppose to be. But on 8th turn silvan elves broke all their alliances except with me and they went to war with Dale. I was under the impression alliances would stay in tact...good vs evil. Am I mistaken or did I overllook something? Thanks

[Archaon]

It is possible that would be a rare one off situation - very strange but JonSnow was kind enough to create very good relationships according to lore in his last post here. if you know how to implement this please do so! it will most likely prevent such strange things from happening.

EDIT:

I have uploaded the descr_strat from post # 1 with JonSnow' addition.

[HOWLMAN]

ouch...ok thanks..hope i dont screw this up

[HOWLMAN]

Darn it...still having same problem as post 94. Made jonsnows changes with archaons file and silvan elves still breaking alliance and declaring war on dale on turn 8. Not sure whats going on here. any help would be appreciated

[Archaon]

try removing the map.rwm this will be generated again and the new descr_strat settings will start to be used on new campaign's.

NOTE: And you must delete the file called map.rwm found in “"SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\third_age\data\world\maps\base\" directory.

[HOWLMAN]

i did remove it...every time. if i play as silvan elves there is no problem. but i like rowhan and when i play with them thats when it happens..on turn 8 everytime. as a side note if im interpreting the factions correctly and their relationship to each other ( and i think i am ) dale and silvan elves were set at 0.5. i tried adjusting to 1.0. made no difference. silvan elves declared war on dale on turn 8. also i failed to mention that when this happens when im playing with rowhan dale is no longer my ally bit silvan elves still are.

[Archaon]

@HOWLMAN

are you using the cursor actions file also? these are allies and the way the mod works as a whole is that these allies first need to send a diplomat to their ally and break the alliance, only then will they be able to attack.

It is play tested on at least 10 people's games and there are over 700 downloads so far and no one else has this issue..

i do not mean to sound rude but would you mind doing a full re-installation of TA:TW and add my files as the only sub-mod then see if you still have this error.

in regards to the relationships i will ask JonSnow to see if he can help as i have yet to play with the settings and trust his work to be done right (the results speak for themselves)

[HOWLMAN]

@HOWLMAN

are you using the cursor actions file also? these are allies and the way the mod works as a whole is that these allies first need to send a diplomat to their ally and break the alliance, only then will they be able to attack.

It is play tested on at least 10 people's games and there are over 700 downloads so far and no one else has this issue..

i do not mean to sound rude but would you mind doing a full re-installation of TA:TW and add my files as the only sub-mod then see if you still have this error.

in regards to the relationships i will ask JonSnow to see if he can help as i have yet to play with the settings and trust his work to be done right (the results speak for themselves)

I dont feel you are being rude...you are just trying to help. I did as you suggested. I did a complete reinstall of the game. I used only your file that you posted in post 95. i deleted the map.rwm. i installed... descr_cursor_actions.txt ...*descr_cursor_tooltips_lookup.txt... *cursor_action_tooltips.txt from post 1. I have no other sub mods installed. The same thing happened. I start the campaign with rowhan and silvan elves declare war on dale on the 8 turn. They break all their alliances except with me and gondor and dale breaks their alliance with me. Sorry bud but i think i am doing everything right it just is not working. Near as I can tell silvan elves and dale are the only 2 doing this. All other alliances are holding. I know you said in your last post no one repoted any problems. is it possible i am the only one playing with rowhan and therefore only one to see problem? anyways if you have any other ideas it would be appreciated.

[HOWLMAN]

ok bud..i wont be bothering you anymore with this unless you want to continue looking at possible causes. I am now convinced that there is some sort of glitch somewhere. I started a new campagn 5 straight times. i clicked thru the turns without doing anything just so i could get thru it quickly. anyways... the first 4 times i started a new campagn ( with rowhan each time to keep experiment valid ) the silvan elves declared war on dale on the 8th turn just like clockwork. However, the 5th time i restarted program ( with rowhan ) the silvan elves did not declare war on dale. I went thru 15 turns and alliance held. So I am convinced there is something wrong somewhere..just dont know where. i hope this post is helpful. It is apparent to me that something is not consistant...

[Archaon]

@Howlman,

Ok sorry, finished work and after testing for ages today now i really need to start packing for my week holiday. I may have a chance to find out why you get these results during my time away on my laptop but below is the result from my investigations.

I have tried a few (long) tests to check where i might go wrong with my files. I first removed diplomats so no one can create any and there are none already from game start, because the aim of my mod is to make the diplomats the only way an alliance can be broken. I have started 3 times as rohan through to well past 20 turns and none of the allies attacked one another, it just wasn't possible. other things i noticed was all the allies started to wipe out their foes even before the rebels were taken. I then tried to see if playing as Silvan Elves would change things, i had almost identical results, only difference being the invasion was successful and rohan was not able to hold off isengard as easily. that was after 15 turns, and i tired Mordor and came back to this and played up to turn 35..

In the mordor game i tried really hard to expand north and keep gondor at bay, it was hard but i managed pretty well, auto resolving alot (i hate auto resolve).

this was all done without diplomats so it makes sense no one broke alliances!

I then decided to enable the diplomats by putting back all the original TA:TW files (i downloaded the torrent and now seeding).
I only now just finished testing the sames setup exactly as you explain, i have no idea how you are getting you results, it seems not a single change has taken effect in your game.. can you bring up the diplomacy scroll when you play as Dale to show me on turn 1 and turn 7 what your relationship with the nasty wood elves is? to do this hold your cursor over the faction symbol for the elves in your diplomacy scroll. you attach picture files in your reply if you press the 'go advanced' button nextto 'postquick reply'.

[Coeur de Lion]

Damn good idea, will put it on later today

Wait, so they cannot physically attack an ally?? How does that work??

[Archaon]

Damn good idea, will put it on later today

Wait, so they cannot physically attack an ally?? How does that work??

I explained it earlier in this thread, and i am currently prepairing a better first post to explain what changes are made, exactly what is changed and the outcome.

but quick description is that when you have made an alliance, and you plan to attack that ally, you select an army, or a navy, and you hold the cursor over the allies army, city, port, ect you would normally be able to have the opion to attack. my mod changes that option to 'nothing' and the tooltip tells you to send a diplomat and advise them you do not want to be an ally and intend to attack.

For the AI this means that option is simply removed, and when they are making a decision this is not a consideration, if they have an army in your region they will not attack because they simply cannot,if an enemy is there they will be able to attack them and if they are strong enough they will attack the enemy.

wow this was long..

so yeah, simply, there is no option that lets any one execute an offensive move against an ally (other than what a diplomat can achieve).

EDIT:

The optional descr_strat makes all 'good factions' allied from the begining, and all 'bad' allied also.
and with JonSnow' new changes the factions will all perform diplomaticrelations according to the way they would in lore.

ALSO - if you look up ZZZZ' mod you can further adjust the decision making of thefactions,that leads them to perform 'better', read his thread you will understand.

[HOWLMAN]

@archaon

ok i will see what i can do. Right now i am in the middle of a campaign and everything is fine...all alliances holding and my relationships with allies is very good. I understand your your point about the diplomats only being able to break alliances but nontheless the alliance was being broken. im sure as i said before it is a consistancy problem of some sort. i had several trys at the campagn ( without doing anything but starting game over ) and the elves kept breaking the alliance. now all of a sudden they are sticking to the alliance. anyway...its working right now so im happy.

[Archaon]

@archaon

ok i will see what i can do. Right now i am in the middle of a campaign and everything is fine...all alliances holding and my relationships with allies is very good. I understand your your point about the diplomats only being able to break alliances but nontheless the alliance was being broken. im sure as i said before it is a consistancy problem of some sort. i had several trys at the campagn ( without doing anything but starting game over ) and the elves kept breaking the alliance. now all of a sudden they are sticking to the alliance. anyway...its working right now so im happy.

I am glad it is working well now but i am left without knowing if they were using diplomats to break the alliances because they hate them (JonSnow' relationship mod)..

[HOWLMAN]

I am glad it is working well now but i am left without knowing if they were using diplomats to break the alliances because they hate them (JonSnow' relationship mod)..

Hey bud..just to let you know im 80 turns in and alliances still holding. i had a thought...not sure if any validity to it because im not real familiar wuth all the workings but i was wondering if perhaps there could be an issue with a generals traits. perhaps one has a trait that somehow overrides any political crap. just a thought

[Coeur de Lion]

Thanks for that...

Just to raise a point though, if an ally has the intention to attack...but the option is removed, won't that leave allied armies in your land clustered round cities etc until they decide to send a diplomat to you? Does the AI even make good use of diplomats?

[Archaon]

Thanks for that...

Just to raise a point though, if an ally has the intention to attack...but the option is removed, won't that leave allied armies in your land clustered round cities etc until they decide to send a diplomat to you? Does the AI even make good use of diplomats?

They do not ever stand in you region, the AI tells them to go do something else, their decision makeing changes all the time based on the situation globally, which is forever changing.. for them to stay in your region for more than one turn, that would only mean that the ai is either turned off or all other factions are strategically identical for two turns, both unlikely, therefore you wont ever see allies sitting around in you regions..

in fact i hardly see allies in my regions ever, they simply never build up the kind of military power to spare the units.