KGCME - BETA SUBMOD DISCUSSION

[FortressofRain]

Well, I've been hard at work the past couple of days to impliment and develope a few changes. After getting some feedback from my previous thread, I've finally learned everything about modding I needed to in order to complete and release this small submod. The goal is to get rid of a few oddities that existed in some of the files, add a few things that make me happy, and add a few new units that are, technically vinilla, just dismounted versions. I'll explain below what I included, and how I balanced the campaign map by keeping things and the code extremely simple.

However, I've made several variations to this mod, and am putting up a poll on which elements I should release. But first some screenshots of the new units! (though I can't take credit for the units themselves, they were made by Pawel the Crusader and can be found here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...npack+crusades ) and some things I borrowed from Dismounted Orders Mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81042 (mostly unit cards, a few were better). I am just adding them to KGCM and fixing a few other things that were wrong with the EDU, script file, and other files. See the log below. And vote on what you would like included in a package download!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First of all, I added dismounted Knights Templars and Dismounted Hospitallers to the Order Guilds. See below for log.





Knights of Tripoli and the Knights Templar prepare to do battle.



The Tripoli Knights are glad to have the Templars by their sides, fighting on foot with them in a more practical fashion.



However, the Tripoli Knights are getting a bit anxious.



In addition to the Templar Knights, Templar Conferee Knights are also available to recruit to support their lifetime brotheren. With Jerusalem Captain.





But Antioch can't be left out. No, they now field their own Dismounted Edessan Knights.










Random posts of mixed units, D Templar Conferee, D Templar Knight. D Knights of Trilopi, D Knights of Jerusalem.













Well you get the idea!

See next post for change log and voting for mod package!



PS - I can if you all want include pwf224's horde script for factions, etc. with his permission of course. Just an idea.

[helmersen]

Wow! They look great!

[FortressofRain]

Ok so here is the start. Please make note that these are early beta changes that I want feedback on to find out what you all agree with or disagree with. Then I'll release a mod.

KGCME - Kingdoms Grand Campaign Expanded 1.0

Changelog

Objective changes

-Deleted all peasant units from the game, except Transylvanian Peasants which are unchanged.
- Replaced Aztec Peasants with Native Warriors for recruitment by aztec faction
- Replaced all peasant units with lowest level militia unit from city barracks level 1 to castle barracks level 1 for better ai army, and lets be honest, you're going to upgrade your castles and peasants/new militia units get cut off from recruitment pool anyway at the drill square level. But at least it gives the impression that you can field armed citizens from a castle... (ie - peasants replaced with town militia, SE peasants with SE town militia, peasants for TO replaced with Order Militia, etc.) Tripoli and Edessan squires for KoJ and Antioch remain unchanged. Also I left in highland rabble for unique feel in addition to allowing additional recruitment slots for scottland who can also recruit town militia from castle level one. They need the help, and their just peasants. Fun to ride down with your huscarals or English cavalry.
- Replaced removed Peasant units with knew Dismounted Knights units.
- Removed the un-needed elephant entry for turmids.
- Updated battle_models.modeldb, meshes, ui cards, unit cards, sprites, and textures for new models.
- Edited descr_rebel_factions.txt to remove all references to peasants
- Added Welsh Militiamen to slave (for change in descr_rebel_factions.txt)
- Added EE town militia to slave (for change in descr_rebel_factions.txt)
- Updated descr_strat.txt to replace EE Peasants with EE Town Militia
- Fixed unlocalized placement text as seen in screenshots above for D Templar Conferee Knights

Units added

- Added Dismounted Knights Templar and Dismounted Knights Hospitalar to all factions capable of building Knights Templar Guild and Knights Hospitalar Guild. Recruitable at Major Chapter Guild level and above (same replenishment and unit pool values as Knights Templar, etc).
- Added Dismounted Ritterbutter or whatever to match the dismounted version of order knights of other factions for Teutonic Guild for HRE and TO. (maybe a dismounted Teutonic Knight to come in the future)
- Added Dismounted Knights of Tripoli and Dismounted Templar Conferee Knights to Jerusalem faction. To balance the change of adding new units in the EDB (which would allow this faction to effectively have a unit pool twice as big of heavy knights), I made a max unit pool for Knights of Jerusalem reduced to 1 from 2 and added D Templar Conferee Knights with a max pool of 1 (effectively keeping the same unit pool just of varied units) at the drill square level. At the barracks level I reduced Knights of J again to max unit pool of 1, added Knights Templar with max recruit pool of 1, and added in Knights of Tripoli to match Antioch's Edessan Guard Elite unit (stats vary b/w units, ie not the same).
- Added in Knights of Edessa to Antioch faction at the drill square level. Same thing here. Max unit pool of 1, reduced Knights of Antioch to max unit pool of 1.
- Added in Knights Hospitaller unit with max unit pool of 1 at the barracks level for Antioch and reduced Knights of Antioch to max unit pool of 1 from 2.

Basically the idea here is to add new units but keeping with dave's great work and game play balance. I added new units but kept all of the recruitment times the same and total unit pool for heavy units, etc the same (2 for heavy knights).

Optional Enhancements - VOTE - Please just put a yes or no by the number for your votes. Remember that I'm making this mod for you guys and will tailor it to what Dave and the community prefer. Obviously I make little changes and keep a seperate mod folder just for my gameplay preferences. These are just suggustions that I like and I want your opinion on what to include in an official release.

1 - Changed descr_burning_men_effect.txt to increase play timer from whatever to 100. Makes men burn for longer when burning oil and mongel etc light them up
2 - Added permanent arrows mod (arrows do not disappear from battle map)
3 - Added changed to descr_torch_effect from submod for better night lighting effects
4 - Delete or add Sherwood archers back into the game. If Delete, I will clean up EDU and associated files to remove them entirely and free up more available unit slots in the EDU for future expansion like I did with elephants, and may possibly in the future also remove highland rabble and T-Peasants. Since I only added 5 new units I only deleted 6 for the time being. Though I already know how Dave feels about this issue.
5 - Add fire projectile only to catapult, trebuche, and grand bombard. Everything else stays the same. Eye candy, esp with the improved burning men effect, and makes them usefull against troops, somewhat, cuase they cost lots, and they slow me down, and don't knock down many walls, not ussually. : /
6 - May include an updated version of XAI when it comes out
7 - zero's horde script

Then I have a very few small personal changes like changing the end date in descr_strat to 1680 (1000 turns). I hate being rushed... but whatever, lol. I think that's it. I'll update this as I go, and make it neater and more professional. Please provide feedback as to what else you would like to see added to this expansion mod. Again, I'm making this for you guys so please let me know what you want.

[FortressofRain]

Let me know what you all think. This is more of an infomational discussion thread than a release. I want plenty of feedback so I can give you the best product possible. Espcially from Dave to keep this great mod as close to his work as possible. I of course make little changes as I like for my personal campaigns, but my aim is to be as objective as possible in producing a mod that maintain the integrity of Dave's work while fixing a few bugs and adding/taking away a few new/old/uneeded units.

The idea behind adding the new units is to make, what I considered a dual KoJ faction to a visually stimulating and entertaining faction. Slight improvements to Antioch's unit roster.

And of course, ultimately I'd like to release a product with Dave's blessing, which is why all feedback is important.

[Dave Scarface]

Looks good so far, the new units for KOJ and Antioch will give these factions a bit more variety. Also I am pleased to see that you are not just adding more units into the tech tree and unbalancing everything. But are careful to keep their replenishment pools low enough so that too many dismounted knights are not available at any one time.

I will be updating patch 3.9 shortly with the few EDU corrections made. And the fix in the code to the garrison script at Thessalonica. The inquisitors change is already in patch 3.9 btw so you need not add that.

The only thing I advise caution on is adding the new dismounted units to the guilds. I suggest you auto run a few hotseats to see what effect this will have on the AI's upkeep costs overall, now that they can recruit both knights and dismounted knights in cities with these guilds. I am sure most people will like the idea of extra units from guilds anyway. But I personally think that each guild should only give 1 special unit. When you start adding more units to them like other mods have done, it begins to make all other guilds pointless in comparison. If setup right however this may not unbalance things too much.

Dave

[Zerosliver]

pwf224's horde script? :p
Never heard of that before.

Anyway, you have encouraged me to make the horde script work and I will start working on it tomorrow again.

[pwf224]

I think he meant zero's horde script. I have done very little direct modding myself save for the Welsh name fix back in 3.6. Most of my work is commentary from the peanut gallery and team guinea pig

[FortressofRain]

For the guilds, the recruit pool for KT and DKT is at a max of one, with a replenishment rate of .25 at major and .34 at master level. In playing other factions you should be building your own units, not special units. This means you can recruit one unit of Dismounted Knights Templar at a time (max pool one) and only once every 3 turns or 2 years at a maximum. Its more to add a unique feel and shouldn't effect game balance much at all, but I will play test more.

CORRECTION, I appologize, yes I mean Zero's horde script.

Also I'll be editing the above post, sinse Dave is about to release version 4.0 anyway. Some of the above changes will be includes so I'll be downsizing this mod to match.

[FortressofRain]

I updated this for 4.0 and I also will be adding dismounted Knights of santiago and dismounted tuetonic knights (replacing the fill in ritterbutter for HRE and TO for TO Guild Halls. This should complete my project, aside from adding in the horde script mod of zero's once he finishes it if he likes, or it can be released seperate.

I've updated all files and am almost finished with the mod file for release. I'll include a readme and a final changelog list for the official release.

I will be releasing the main mod and extra files for optional mods in a seperate folder in the same download you can read the read me and pick and choose what you like.

Now I'll actually want to play KoJ, *chuckle*

[Dave Scarface]

I just wanted to ask is the EDU now at its max again? And would you consider adding anymore new units to it in the future?

thanks,
Dave

[FortressofRain]

Yes it is at its max. Yes I am more than willing to add new units, though keep in mind that I am not a texture person yet. Mostly coding, I can do unit cards and info pics too, use gimp. I plan to start learning milkshape I think it is or whatever, soon to be able to make units from scratch (not that I have many ideas at this point, just like to learn new skills is all).

Personally I see no need to remove units (which as always add variety) unless I am replacing them with something. But there are still more units that could be replaced. Such as sherwood archers, trans peasants, highland rabble.

I still need to remove one more unit to make room for Dismounted Tuetonic Knights, but I might just leave their unit as D Ritterbutter. Haven't decided yet.

Here are the changes so far:

- Removed Aztec Peasants, ME Peasants, EE Peasants, Elephants (turmids only), Southern Peasants, Peasants.

- Replaced Aztec peasants with native warriors for aztec faction recruitment.

- Added Dis. Knight of Tripoli, Templar Conferee Knights, Templar Knights, Knights Hospitaller, Knights of Santiago, Knights of Edessa.

6 on/6 off.

Candidates for removal: Transulvanian Peasants, Highland Rabble, Sherwood Archers, suggustions...

Other positive feedback, I think the units are balanced perfect now as well. Had to do some adjustments.

Will add more screenshots soon! This mod is almost ready.

I was also thinking about maybe improving the strat map captain models. What do you guys think? I know there are already plenty of mods out there to work with.

[Dave Scarface]

I think that if you ever did decide to get permission to add some more additional units say from another mod or somewhere. Looking through the EDU closely you will find a few redundant units in their. For example the new Kingdoms unit Hasham replaced Sipahi Lancers in my changes for the turks. It never made much sense to keep both of these units in the export_descr_buildings.txt. Because they are essentially the same unit. You may find a few more examples of redundant units like this since the Kingdoms additions.

Dave

[helmersen]

Cant we download this?

[FortressofRain]

This will be ready for Beta testing in a download probably in another 3 days or so. I don't want to put a timestamp down for sure, as I have finals and stuff, but it is almost ready. Just a few more tests need to be done to make sure everything works correctly and I need to decide what to do with the Tuetonic Order. Then this should be complete.

[Soul Firez]

hey seems an interesting sub mod your cooking up here certainly like the idea of fire for the siege gear not archers any chance of going a little heavier on the blood if this doesnt bog things down i like fighting up close and well blood kinda looks like dirty smudge now a minor wish i want to see men die in goreoh one thing though hows is perm arrows going to affect it lagging i use huge armies but i find in siege whenyou get that bottle neck right in gate way with 1000 bodies laying there and a few more thousand fighting it starts to break up will this add to much to that ??

[FortressofRain]

Just for clarification, I will be releasing the main mod and in a separate folder I will release all of the sub mods that you will be able to pick and choose what you want to add. Maybe if I can get some help I can have an installer made where you can choose when you install.

To answer you above question, it really depends on your pc. I have played with two full stacks of archers, for me even with burning bodies etc. There is no lag but I have a powerful pc. I've heard some people with bad pcs experience minor lag with this mod as you will have upwards of a thousand arrows, depending on the amount of archers sitting all over the map. If you even have a decent pc, the mod alone won't cuase any additional lag, but for some people, adding numerous effects add up to lag. Such as arrows, plus more fire, plus more dirt and blood, plus bigger units = more bodies, etc...

I might add some extra stuff but there is already a submod for visual stuff which includes dirt and blood. I may take from that as options, but we'll see where this goes.

I have done extensive play testing for all of the above options and so far everything is perfectly balanced, even the seige engine submod, which increases costs, number of men, and seige engines by 1.5 (3 catapults for example). The effect is to increase rate of fire against troops, but i reduced ammo per man to keep same total ammo. You go empty a little faster now. This is balanced however becuase although you can kill more men faster per more seige engines, if you decide to bring along only one seige engine unit, you have an extra slot for 150 more men, an extra unit, same with ai, which means, seige engine costs more, but same effectiveness over all except against walls, bring them down a little faster, but depends. In the past you'd ussually bring 2-4 units of siege engines, now 2 units is equal to 3 in rate of fire, but has less ammo that the old 3 units all together would. However, you gain an increased effectiveness per unit against troops on the battle map. Shoot faster, kill more, and now bringing along 1 unit of catapult is worth slowing your army move rate. There are trade offs to the old way, but I feel this is far superior for the game mechanics and overall feel. You pay more in cost and upkeep though per unit, which is ok and blanced. You also have more men per unit so its just a bit harder to route with a cavalry charge, etc.

Anyway, I'm ready to release this, all I need is to separate into folders and parts, and write a readme. I have a paper and finals so don't expect this probably until Tuesday or Thursday at the latest.

[vietanh797]

I thought that you work on Norse(Danes) men too?
you said that before
why not show em out this may look good

about my work on Hanseatic League faction I forget back up my work before install 4.0 patch so all my work gone >"<
anyway that is experience that I always have to back up file before do something

[Soul Firez]

how is the progress going forrest ?? and i have to askwhat is probably a stupid question but hey wouldnt be myfirst one is there any way of putting fire arrows in but only on elite archers i dont want spaming fire arrows but it be nice to see a rain of fire from an ubber group

[Zerosliver]

how is the progress going forrest ?? and i have to askwhat is probably a stupid question but hey wouldnt be myfirst one is there any way of putting fire arrows in but only on elite archers i dont want spaming fire arrows but it be nice to see a rain of fire from an ubber group

You'll have to mod it in yourself again

It's not that hard, but can take a lot of time.

[FortressofRain]

Progress is done. I just finished finals and am going camping and rock climbing tomorrow. I might try to upload something before I go, but otherwise, I'll release this Friday night or Saturday, depending on how long we decide to stay.