The Sámi People

[Pallantides]

* This thread is a split from the a thread In the Ethos, in order to avoid any confusion, it started out as a discussion about religion but ended up in a discussion about Sami culture , history and their relations with each other and neighbouring people.

Sami Faith and Mythology
http://www.saivu.com/web/index.php?giella1=eng


The Sami Deities:

• Aske or Manna - The god of the Moon.
• Atja - The god of thunder, also called Bajanolmmai, Dierpmis or Hovrengalles, which means "Thor- man".
• Beaivi or Biejje - The great Goddess of the Sun, mother of human kind.
• Bieggagallis - The god of the storms, father of human kind, consort of Beaivi.
• Bieggolman - God of the summer winds.
• Biegkegaellies - God of the winter winds.
• Biejjenniejte - Goddess of healing and medicine; her name means "Daughter of the Sun" or "Maiden of the Sun", and she was especially helpful against sicknesses caused by her mother, the sun.
• Jabbmeaaakka - Goddess of death and queen of the underworld and the kingdom of death.
• Jipmel - "God"; possibly this was a late lative name of the Christian god, but it could also have been a name to include all good deities
• Juoksahkka - The protecter and guardian of children; "The woman with an arrow".
• Lieaibolmmai - God of the hunt, the god of adult men.
• Maadteraahka - Mother of the tribe, Goddess of women and children, she who gives humans their body; women belonged to her, and boys belonged to her until they were declared men. Maadteraahka is popular among modern sami feminists.
• Maadteraajja - The father of the tribe, husband of Maadteraahka; while his wife gives humans their body, he gives them their soul; and thus, they are born.
• Mubpienålmaj - "The evil one"; possibly the Christian god of evil, but also a name that included all the evil deities.
• Oksaahka - The former of the fetus; she shaped the fietus in the mother's womb and gave humans their gender. She was the sister of Juoksahka.
• Raedie or Väraldarade - The main god, the great creator ot the world; he was, however, passive, some say even sleeping, and not very included in active religion.
• Raedieahkka - Wife of Raedie.
• Rana Niejta - Daughter of Raedie. "Rana" was a popular name of Sami girls.
• Raediengiedte - Son of Raedie.
• Ruohtta - The god of sicknesses and therefore also a death-god. He was depicted riding on a horse.
• Saaraahka - The Goddess of fertility, menstruation, love, sexuality, pregnancy and childbirth. Saaraahka was the most important female god; she is sometimes sister of Juoksahka and Oksaahka, sometimes they are a trinity of the same Goddess.
• Stallon - The feared giant of the woods.
• Tjaetsieålmaj - The men of water.

There is no war god as war and conquest was completely alien to the Sami people

There is also ancestor worship and animal cults(the Bear Cult was the most prominent)

Two Sami men and women 19th century:

[MaximiIian]

There is no war god as war and conquest was completely alien to the Sami people

Bullst. They're human; thus, warfare is familiar to them and has been for a long, long fking time.
And while they might not have a specific deity dedicated to war, I bet war was a secondary attribute to the thunder/weather gods. It often was and is among Northern European tribal pantheons.

[Pallantides]

Bullst. They're human; thus, warfare is familiar to them and has been for a long, long fking time.
And while they might not have a specific deity dedicated to war, I bet war was a secondary attribute to the thunder/weather gods. It often was and is among Northern European tribal pantheons.

It seems to me that you're not very knowledgeable about the Sami people, Sami are the indigenous people of Northern Scandinavia, Kola Peninsula(Russia) and Finland and they have always been a peaceful folk,The Sami have never deliberately waged war and there are no recorded evidence of any wars or warring conflicts between the Sami, the Sami simply retreated further North rather than seek out conflict with it's neighbors.


http://www.faqs.org/faqs/nordic-faq/...section-2.html
from the site:

Historians now also note that Ghengis Khan
wrote that the Sámi (or, Fenner as they were then called), were the
one nation he would never try to fight again. The Sámi were not
warriors in the conventional sense. They simply didn't believe in war
and so they "disappeared" in times of conflict. The Sámi remain one
culture that has never been to war but are known as "peaceful
retreaters" adapting to changing living conditions, whether they were caused by nature or by other people.

The only known and documented violent incident inastigated by the Sami happened in 1852
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_re..._Guovdageaidnu
Kautokeino Opprøret is a great movie about the rebellion * Movie violence and gore

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Priest Læstadius was a key figure in preserving Sami Culture and Mythology, so those who make statements about Christian clerics destroying everything in their wake are wrong.

Because Christians destroyed the faith mine is based off of. So, I am dedicated to returning the favor.

No they didn't, apparently the Scandinavians found something they thought was better at that time and that was Christianity,
besides it was Christian priests, monks and historians who took the time to write down and preserve the old mythology.

[Babur]

It seems to me that you're not very knowledgeable about the Sami people, Sami are the indigenous people of Northern Scandinavia, Kola Peninsula(Russia) and Finland and they have always been a peaceful folk,The Sami have never deliberately waged war and there are no recorded evidence of any wars or warring conflicts between the Sami, the Sami simply retreated further North rather than seek out conflict with it's neighbors.


http://www.faqs.org/faqs/nordic-faq/...section-2.html
from the site:
The only known and documented violent incident inastigated by the Sami happened in 1852
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_re..._Guovdageaidnu
Kautokeino Opprøret is a great movie about the rebellion

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* Movie violence and gore

The Priest Læstadius was a key figure in preserving Sami Culture and Mythology, so those who make statements about Christian clerics destroying everything in their wake are wrong.




No they didn't, apparently the Scandinavians found something they thought was better at that time and that was Christianity,
besides it was Christian priests, monks and historians who took the time to write down and preserve the old mythology.

corrected

[Pallantides]

So do you admit that you were wrong about the Saami?

[MaximiIian]

So do you admit that you were wrong about the Saami?

I admit that I don't really give a , and I don't know why you're being such a whiny little child about it.
In any case, I stand by my assertion that war is familiar to them. It's very simple, really: people are violent animals; the Sami, being people, have committed violence in the past, even if it's only on a tribal level. It is simply human nature.

[Kautokeino Viking]

Bullst. They're human; thus, warfare is familiar to them and has been for a long, long fking time.
And while they might not have a specific deity dedicated to war, I bet war was a secondary attribute to the thunder/weather gods. It often was and is among Northern European tribal pantheons.

Not only did we not war amongst ourselves, never did we make war with the Norwegians either.


Good Cultural Relations:

In the 8th and 9th centuries, the Norwegians began to settle along the coast of Finnmark, and this continued through the Viking age and into the Middle Ages. In the beginning, the Norwegians were mostly traders who settled with their families. But as time progressed more and more of them moved into Sapmi. During this early time relations were cordial between the Sami and the early Norwegians; the contact was often mutually beneficial. They intermarried and engaged in commerce. According to Gutorm Gjessing (in his book Changing Lapps), “North-Norwegian culture has always been subjected to Sami influences. And whilst Ottar…learned how to keep reindeer from the Sames, the sea-Sames of Nordland at least learned how to keep animals from the Norwegians…” According to Gjessing, the Sami were superior boat makers. In fact, Gjessing conjectures that they built the majority of the whaling boats that frequented the North-Norwegian coast. Unlike other periods in their history, the Sami and the Norwegians had amicable relations. There is evidence that they looked upon each other as equals. In this early period the Sami frequently exported boats to Norwegian provinces. A burial mound, dated from the 10th century, for example, contained a Norwegian man who, according to Scandinavian custom, was buried in a boat. The twenty-four to thirty foot long boat was sewn together with reindeer sinew, a Sami custom that dates from the Viking Age to the 18th century. There is also the example of the Norwegian King who hired Sami craftsmen to build a fleet of boats. While the boats were being built, the King lived with them at their winter settlements. The King said the following:
It was pleasant in the earth-dwelling when happily we were drinking, and the son of a King merrily could walk between the benches. There was no lack of fun at the merry drink. Men rejoiced with each other as anywhere else.
For Gutorm Gjessing, this example illustrates that the Norwegians looked upon the Sami as their equals. He writes: “The episode of King Sigurd Slembe…illustrates excellently how natural the association between the Sami and the Norwegians was.” Gjessing thinks that the natural contact between the two groups may be because of the high esteem that each had for the other, for, unlike the later periods, the Sami and Norwegians were roughly on the same “technical” level. Gjessing’s explanation is reasonable, for people tend to associate more freely with their perceived equals. Actually, though, the Sami were superior craftsmen, hunters, and all around fishermen. The Norwegians bought many of their necessities from the Sami, such as, clothing, shoes, skin costumes, and blankets. So economically, the Sami were better off. The disparities were not as great as today’s differences.
In addition to trade, the Nordic people and the Sami also intermarried, for the skeletons of Sami burials show a strong mixture of Nordic and East Baltic ethnic groups.

[MaximiIian]

I honestly don't care; I'm not a Sami, so what they do is beyond my ability to give a damn. I just don't like his assertion that the Sami are somehow a race of freaking saints, and have never gone to war or committed communal violence. Violent behaviour is just human nature; more than that, it's primate nature. Am I to believe that the Sami are exempt from human nature?

And, no, he's not acting calm and rational. He's acting obsessive; repeatedly bugging me about it, even going so far as to send me multiple PM's and profile messages about a subject I quite obviously am apathetic about. He's being downright obnoxious.

[Kautokeino Viking]

Just because we never participated in acts of war, I wouldn't go so far to call ourselves Saints, but If you read about our history it should be clearer to you, historians do refer to us as "A people that has never been or engaged in war."

To me it seem more like you can't admit that you're wrong and he is right.

[MaximiIian]

To me it seem more like you can't admit that you're wrong and he is right.

It would be an admission of weakness and worthlessness, and everyone would hate me.

Why would anyone respect someone who is wrong all the time?

[Kautokeino Viking]

It would be an admission of weakness and worthlessness, and everyone would hate me.

I don't think anyone would hate you for admitting when you're wrong.

Just because you're wrong in this single case, doesn't mean you are wrong all the time, if anything simply the ability to admit you were wrong is a strength, nobody will hold anything against you.

[wilpuri]

It would be an admission of weakness and worthlessness, and everyone would hate me.

Why would anyone respect someone who is wrong all the time?

Some people just insist on being wrong, all the time.

As for Sámis not engaging in warfare, I think it has much to do with their nomadic lifestyle. How would the Sámis gather the numbers for a fighting force? Weapons? Food? What would they fight for as they owned not land but flocks? Once the reindeer moved, so would they.

ut its certainly true that there is a linguistic onnection between the Sami and certain Siberian peoples. Sami languages are Uralic, linking them with several spoken to the east of the Urals, as well as several closer by. There's no lingusitic link between Sami and any North American or even north east Asian language though.

Sámi is quite distantly related to anything spoken in Siberia, that link is several thousands of years old.

[Pallantides]

Sami Faith and Mythology
http://www.saivu.com/web/index.php?giella1=eng


Two Sami men and women 19th century:


Sami goldwork



Siida council


Sami Shaman

[Babur]

I honestly don't care; I'm not a Sami, so what they do is beyond my ability to give a damn. I just don't like his assertion that the Sami are somehow a race of freaking saints, and have never gone to war or committed communal violence. Violent behaviour is just human nature; more than that, it's primate nature. Am I to believe that the Sami are exempt from human nature?

And, no, he's not acting calm and rational. He's acting obsessive; repeatedly bugging me about it, even going so far as to send me multiple PM's and profile messages about a subject I quite obviously am apathetic about. He's being downright obnoxious.

just because you don't care doesn't mean you're right

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

I honestly don't care; I'm not a Sami, so what they do is beyond my ability to give a damn. I just don't like his assertion that the Sami are somehow a race of freaking saints, and have never gone to war or committed communal violence. Violent behaviour is just human nature; more than that, it's primate nature. Am I to believe that the Sami are exempt from human nature?

And, no, he's not acting calm and rational. He's acting obsessive; repeatedly bugging me about it, even going so far as to send me multiple PM's and profile messages about a subject I quite obviously am apathetic about. He's being downright obnoxious.

It is pretty simple actually.. As you know Santa Clause lives in Lappland which is the Sami homeland. Obviously if they went to war Santa would not bring them their presents..

[Pallantides]

It is pretty simple actually.. As you know Santa Clause lives in Lappland which is near the Sami homeland. Obviously if they went to war Santa would not bring them their Reindeer for presents..

The Sami also work in Santas workshop




I have been looking through hundreds of pictures in the Norwegian Folk Museums Sami Collection as part of my own family research

Sea Sami Nicolai Nielsen is possibly an ancestor of mine on the maternal side of my family:




Other pictures in the Sami collection I found rather interesting:

For fun, instead of working on a web page I'm suppose to be doing, I looked up what studies I could find on Sami genetics.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/d...st/genetic.htm

Apparently they are no more Asian than the rest of Europe genetically, but plain old European. On the other hand it appears they split from the rest of the European branches quite a long time ago and may have been in their lands since the last ice age.

Pretty interesting stuff.

I was a bit surprised because so many look very Asian/Siberian but the theory is that its due to more of a convergent evolution due to the same lifestyle.

This great information, sorry for taking you away from what you were supposed to be doing.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

The Sami also work in Santas workshop

Only the short ones...

For fun, instead of working on a web page I'm suppose to be doing, I looked up what studies I could find on Sami genetics.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/d...st/genetic.htm

Apparently they are no more Asian than the rest of Europe genetically, but plain old European. On the other hand it appears they split from the rest of the European branches quite a long time ago and may have been in their lands since the last ice age.

Pretty interesting stuff.

I was a bit surprised because so many look very Asian/Siberian but the theory is that its due to more of a convergent evolution due to the same lifestyle.

Exactly.

The mtDNA studies have revealed that the Sami had separated from other Europeans over 10,000 years ago, making the Sami a unique and ancient sub-group of Europeans. Haplogroup V (mtDNA) indicates ancient population movement that started about 15,000 years ago, from Southwestern Europe up to Northwestern Europe. The Haplogroup's frequency in Europe is the highest among the Sami (40.9%) followed by Catalonians (26.7%) and Basque (20.0%).[11] However,the higher concentration of microsatellite variation of this haplogroup is shown in the basques' neighbor population of Pasiegos of Cantabria,indicates is this minority ethnic group where the V haplogroup may have been born and perhaps it was more abundant in the past.
Modern research in genetics seems to agree that Sami people have a slightly higher incidence than other European populations of markers on their mitochondrial (maternal line) DNA indicating descent from hunter-gatherer peoples that followed the receding glaciers at the end of the latest ice age. While the Y-chromosome (paternal line) markers indicate some ancestry among the Finno-Ugric populations. Genetic studies also indicate shared ancestry with neighboring Nordic populations.[37] Archeological evidence for the area suggests that several different cultural groups made their way to the core area of Sapmi from 8000-6000 BC,[38] presumably including some of the ancestors of present-day Sami.

[MaximiIian]

Fine, then, I may have been wrong. I don't know much about the Sami people in particular. However, I thought it would be a fair assumption to extend generalisations about human behaviour to all human groups. It made sense to me at the time.

[Kautokeino Viking]

Humanity overall have been violent and waged war, but there are exceptions.

[Babur]

Fine, then, I may have been wrong. I don't know much about the Sami people in particular. However, I thought it would be a fair assumption to extend generalisations about human behaviour to all human groups. It made sense to me at the time.

well generalisations are often proven wrong.