Palestinian rivals end unity talks

**Nikos** · April 28, 2009, 05:12 PM

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...056212847.html

Rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah have concluded Egyptian-mediated talks without reaching an agreement on forming a unity government.
The talks in Cairo, aimed at reaching a unity deal before elections in 2010, came to a close on Tuesday, with the two factions agreeing to meet again on May 16.
Most international powers say they will only deal with a Palestinian government that recognises Israel, a concession that Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance Movement, is unwilling to make.
Egyptian mediators have suggested that Hamas stay out of the transitional government and instead enable Mahmoud Abbas, the Fatah leader and Palestinian president, who already has the West's backing, to run it.
As compensation, Hamas and other Palestinian factions would become part of an advisory committee that would be given a say in the government's decisions.
But Hamas, which won a sweeping victory in the 2006 Palestinian parliament elections, appears unlikely to embrace the Egyptian proposal, which would keep them out of the government.
Delegates at the talks also held meetings with Omar Suleiman, Egypt's intelligence chief.
Suleiman reportedly asked for a final response to the Egyptian compromise proposal when talks resume on May 16.
"Now all the concentration is on the Egyptian proposal, which says that ... any government formed by President Abbas will conduct the contacts with the international community," Nabil Shaath, Fatah's negotiator, said.
Poor relations between Fatah and Hamas further degenerated after security forces loyal to Hamas pushed Fatah fighters out of the Gaza Strip in June 2007.

I'm glad HAMAS is not going to be in the PA's government. They are scum, hopefully the PA can get it's act together so a solution can be found.

**Каие** · April 28, 2009, 05:40 PM

Abbas is no longer the President of Palestine. He is illegally holding his post, in complete defiance of the Palestinian constitution and the democratic integrity of the Palestinian people. Elections should be held immediately in the West Bank and Jerusalem only to establish a new leader, government and Parliament. If Hamas wants to be a part of elections it needs to respect the constitution and hand back Gaza to Palestine.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 05:50 PM

If only Hamas and Fatah stayed out of Palestine and left it in control of the Unified National Leadership of the Uprising

**Heinz Guderian** · April 28, 2009, 05:58 PM

They need a third way. Non-violent action. Take away Israel's excuse to brutalise and strangle them. Its impossible for the Palestinians to win militarily especially with the pliant dictatorial Arab regimes around them. They must protest their rights through non-violent means. Its worked so many times before. They need a peace-mongering leader. A guy who gives flowers to IDF soldiers on checkpoints. They've tried violence. This is a dead-end due to current geo-politics and their geographic position.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian

They need a third way. Non-violent action. Take away Israel's excuse to brutalise and strangle them. Its impossible for the Palestinians to win militarily especially with the pliant dictatorial Arab regimes around them. They must protest their rights through non-violent means. Its worked so many times before. They need a peace-mongering leader. A guy who gives flowers to IDF soldiers on checkpoints. They've tried violence. This is a dead-end due to current geo-politics and their geographic position.

Hence what I said...

**Heinz Guderian** · April 28, 2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

Hence what I said...

except it lead to violence.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian

except it lead to violence.

Led to Israel using violence, but since they didn't fight back it destroyed Israeli credibility and forced them to sign the Oslo Accords. Also before the First Intifada Israel was universally popular in the West, after the UNLU was done with Israel Israel was disliked everywhere outside of Israel.

**Heinz Guderian** · April 28, 2009, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

Led to Israel using violence, but since they didn't fight back it destroyed Israeli credibility and forced them to sign the Oslo Accords. Also before the First Intifada Israel was universally popular in the West, after the UNLU was done with Israel Israel was disliked everywhere outside of Israel.

But they did fight back and well before that. The Palestinians were painted as terrorists since the Munich Olympics and the hijackings of the 70s. Israeli interventions in Tunis and Lebanon against Palestinian diasporas in the early eighties were endorsed in the West due to Palestinian actions. There was no significant pro-peaceful movement from within the Palestinians. Palestinians have been viewed as terrorists for the last 40 years. All those movies, all those cultural indicators, its always the sweaty swarthy guy with the kefayeh who is the crazy one. But Palestinian actions gave them the ammunition.

Palestinians need a movement which provides the social security, social infrastructure and aversion to corruption as (i dare say) Hamas provides without the violent action and reaction. This has never existed in Palestine apart from right at the beginning before splintering and one-upmanship began. It will be hard not to react to some of the human rights violations Israel committs, but with a strong movement and charasmatic pro-peace leaders, it can work. Israeli violations will taper off, a larger percentage of Israeli voters will view the Palestinian cause with sympathy (instead of voting in right wing Likud parties) and there will be a move towards serious lasting peace.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 06:30 PM

As I said the UNLU was that...

They were just killed off by Hamas and the PLO who were helped by Israel.

**Heinz Guderian** · April 28, 2009, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

As I said the UNLU was that...

They were just killed off by Hamas and the PLO who were helped by Israel.

The support and organisation of the UNLU ultimately led to the First Intifada as they joined with the PLO and began to take orders to collaborate with them. The Oslo Peace Accords were the result of American pressure on Israel after Gulf War 1 due to promises made when they were forming the coalition amongst other factors directly linked to the war. Not UNLU.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian

The support and organisation of the UNLU ultimately led to the First Intifada as they joined with the PLO and began to take orders to collaborate with them. The Oslo Peace Accords were the result of American pressure on Israel after Gulf War 1 due to promises made when they were forming the coalition amongst other factors directly linked to the war. Not UNLU.

No, the UNLU was formed almost in opposition to the PLO. The PLO were outside living the life of luxury in Tunis while the UNLU where Palestinian poor. They were betrayed by the PLO.

**Heinz Guderian** · April 28, 2009, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Farnan

No, the UNLU was formed almost in opposition to the PLO. The PLO were outside living the life of luxury in Tunis while the UNLU where Palestinian poor. They were betrayed by the PLO.

I have never heard or read that the UNLU was formed in opposition to the PLO. The PLO was hounded out of the OC and even hounded out of places outside the OC (like Leb and Tunis). The local leadership fell on smaller sometimes rival factions. The UNLU rose out of the lack of PLO local leadership (as well as Jordan leaving a political vaccum due to the proclamation by Jordan of the legal and administrative separation of the West Bank from Jordan according to wikipedia) but quickly followed outside direction by the PLO as things started to heat up. I wouldn't mind seeing evidence otherwise though.

But my point is, the Palestinians need a third non-violent way, like the UNLU, without the violence bit.

**Farnan** · April 28, 2009, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian

I have never heard or read that the UNLU was formed in opposition to the PLO. The PLO was hounded out of the OC and even hounded out of places outside the OC (like Leb and Tunis). The local leadership fell on smaller sometimes rival factions. The UNLU rose out of the lack of PLO local leadership (as well as Jordan leaving a political vaccum due to the proclamation by Jordan of the legal and administrative separation of the West Bank from Jordan according to wikipedia) but quickly followed outside direction by the PLO as things started to heat up. I wouldn't mind seeing evidence otherwise though.

But my point is, the Palestinians need a third non-violent way, like the UNLU, without the violence bit.

The UNLU wasn't violent, they forbid guns and molotovs from being brought to their protest.

And look at the section under Thomas Hammes' The Sling and the Stone.