Police killed in unprovoked shootings.

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · April 28, 2009, 02:06 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_183130.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_191929.html

Two in one month. Both of these criminal scumbags shot and killed police officers before being shot and killed themselves.

How many more of these psychopaths will come out of the woodwork?

Something needs to be done about identifying these schizo guys and PREVENTING them from getting guns, or even better, getting them in a mental facility before they can go on a crime rampage, armed or not.

**Cougar109** · April 28, 2009, 02:17 AM

There are always going to be nutjuobs and whacos running around with loaded guns, the sooner this gets accepted and realized the better. Usually by the time anyone can identify any serious mental illnesses that could lead to a violent outcome it's usually to late since everyone behaves rather differently, and this is if they had any actual mental problems at all since by law paranoia isn't a serious mental disorder and both of these cases seem to have been based on the "paranoia and fear" of Obama taking away their guns.

At the same time you can't prevent them from buying guns because it's so easy to buy a gun off the street it's kind of scary plus you'd have the NRA going on a rampage of their own for even considering preventing anyone from buying firearms and tossing anyone who has symptoms of a mental disorder into the looney bin isn't exactly the most humane way of dealing with this.

This is one of those things where nothing can really be done, it's sad when it happens but it is going to happen and that is one of the few downsides of living in a country with so many freedoms.

**Vercingetorix_Defeated** · April 28, 2009, 02:31 AM

That's the problem, it's TOO easy to get a gun off the streets. That Virginia Tech guy was known to have serious mental issues and even was suspected of criminal behavior, but he LIED on the gun form and got his handguns easily and legally enough.

If you think it cannot be prevented, then why is it so incredibly much more common in the United States? Other Western industrialized nations have much, much, much lower incidences of violent crime with guns.

I mean, have you read the statistics? Tens of thousands of Americans shoot each other with guns, in any other country you'd think it was a civil war, but no, in the US that just means the NRA is still lobbying in Washington.

**Cougar109** · April 28, 2009, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix_Defeated

That's the problem, it's TOO easy to get a gun off the streets. That Virginia Tech guy was known to have serious mental issues and even was suspected of criminal behavior, but he LIED on the gun form and got his handguns easily and legally enough.

If you think it cannot be prevented, then why is it so incredibly much more common in the United States? Other Western industrialized nations have much, much, much lower incidences of violent crime with guns.

I mean, have you read the statistics? Tens of thousands of Americans shoot each other with guns, in any other country you'd think it was a civil war, but no, in the US that just means the NRA is still lobbying in Washington.

NRA is up there as one of my most hated groups in the US political realm, they've taken the second amendment and twisted it is so many ways I'm not even sure what it stands for anymore.

As for why more violent crimes happen in the US, I really can't give you a solid answer honestly. The size of the populations, the amount of freedom we have, the focus shifting away from domestic problems to foreign problems,the bad shape our law enforcement is in. I've heard plenty of studies and excuses but it sound like a bunch of BS in my mind. But we've tried to solve the problems in the past, and every time we tried we failed miserably.

**green tea** · April 28, 2009, 03:18 AM

I can´t remember when the last police officer was shot here in germany. A long time ago, I guess. Maybe the argument "Citizens need those weapons to defend themselves because the criminals have them anyway" helps more the criminals than the citizens or the police. At least if you don´t see it ideologically, but look at the actual numbers of people killed with guns.

Of course, in germany there are also problems with guns. One month ago (estimazedly), there was a young man running amok with guns that his father owned legally. Because of that, there are now discussions to make the laws even harder. Now, if you want to own a gun, you have to be a hunter or be in a special club. It is discussed to take the ammo away and store it centralized. That concept must seem entirely strange in a country where everyone can legally buy dangerous assault weapons.

**grinder** · April 28, 2009, 05:00 AM

Nah it DOES happen in other countries too. But like 2 times a year (in Germany). In some years, (2001, 2004, 2005 recently) luckily, not even a single one.
And another positive thing is, that only 5 or 6 criminals are shot each year here.
In 2006 the entire police fired 90 shots, of wich 27 were directed on persons (others were warnshots etc) and 6 were lethal. I think that is not much for one year (too much still, but as cougar said: nutjobs are running around everywhere).

source (in german, sorry): http://www.schusswaffeneinsatz.de/Sc...tatistiken.pdf

In comparison in 2009 (wich does not run *that* long...) 15 officers died from gunfire alone in the US (41 in total). That is a totaly different league.

source: http://www.odmp.org/year.php

**Mikelus Trento** · April 28, 2009, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix_Defeated

That's the problem, it's TOO easy to get a gun off the streets. That Virginia Tech guy was known to have serious mental issues and even was suspected of criminal behavior, but he LIED on the gun form and got his handguns easily and legally enough.

If you think it cannot be prevented, then why is it so incredibly much more common in the United States? Other Western industrialized nations have much, much, much lower incidences of violent crime with guns.

I mean, have you read the statistics? Tens of thousands of Americans shoot each other with guns, in any other country you'd think it was a civil war, but no, in the US that just means the NRA is still lobbying in Washington.

There are many, many things that are different in American and European perspective on guns and gun violence. Availability is but one. The most glaring one is our Constitutional guarantee as a right the ability to own firearms.

**GeneralLee** · April 28, 2009, 10:21 AM

Keep in mind countries like the UK made a trade off. The got rid of the small amount of gun crime and received a massive increase in violent crime.

**bushbush** · April 28, 2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by GeneralLee

Keep in mind countries like the UK made a trade off. The got rid of the small amount of gun crime and received a massive increase in violent crime.

i honestly don't think violent crime rate in UK is as high as in the US. stats?

**Martin N** · April 28, 2009, 01:19 PM

Surprise surprise, gun control takes guns away from regular officers, and regular citizens, yet the criminals still have them, my who could of seen that coming ?

**Martin N** · April 28, 2009, 01:28 PM

i honestly don't think violent crime rate in UK is as high as in the US. stats?

Probably the fact america has 10 x as many citizens, ever thought of that ?

**Mikelus Trento** · April 28, 2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Martin N

Probably the fact america has 10 x as many citizens, ever thought of that ?

I think the use of the word "rate" indicates it is based on population, it is taking population into account.

And as an American, I'm sad to say, I'm pretty sure the USA has a much higher crime rate than most/any major European country.

**Von Reichgraf** · April 28, 2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Martin N

Probably the fact america has 10 x as many citizens, ever thought of that ?

Ever thought of the words 'relative to population'?

However i do believe there are a lot more reasons than ease of gun purchase behind the higher rates. you can kill a shopkeep or immigrant just as nicely with a knife or piece of wood.

**Gobmech** · April 28, 2009, 01:40 PM

I think the guy who last shot and killed a police officer over here is still sitting in jail - and it was like, 19 years ago or so.

**Phier** · April 28, 2009, 01:43 PM

Oh goodness.

One guy thinks Obama will ban guns, so THATS why he randomly killed 3 cops of course.

The other guy has a fight with his wife, gets tasered at a gun range and shoots the police who tasered him and THATS obviously due to the fact he didn't like that Obama was elected.

Personally they need to work on police training in the second case. You taser a guy at a gun range for gods sake, he MIGHT be armed.

**Cougar109** · April 28, 2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Phier

Oh goodness.

One guy thinks Obama will ban guns, so THATS why he randomly killed 3 cops of course.

The other guy has a fight with his wife, gets tasered at a gun range and shoots the police who tasered him and THATS obviously due to the fact he didn't like that Obama was elected.

Personally they need to work on police training in the second case. You taser a guy at a gun range for gods sake, he MIGHT be armed.

And if the guy was pointing and waving his gun at the cops threatening to shoot before they tasered him? All the training in the world won't make much of a difference when you have a guy pointing a gun right at your face and have to make a split second decision that could mean the difference between you living and dying. It's easy to be a critic from the sideline.

**Gertrudius** · April 28, 2009, 06:21 PM

Making blanket statements about gun violence and related statistics is meaningless when comparing to other countries if you are not using the entirety of the violent crime rate. Even then, there are varying contributions to the violent crime rate such as gang violence and the socioeconomic factors that play into it, that statistically play a more important role than the killings you hear about in the news. Thus comparing two separate countries that are vastly differing within their own borders, let alone to each other, is an exercise in futility.

Take it easy,

**Gelgoog** · April 28, 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gertrudius!

Making blanket statements about gun violence and related statistics is meaningless when comparing to other countries if you are not using the entirety of the violent crime rate. Even then, there are varying contributions to the violent crime rate such as gang violence and the socioeconomic factors that play into it, that statistically play a more important role than the killings you hear about in the news. Thus comparing two separate countries that are vastly differing within their own borders, let alone to each other, is an exercise in futility.

Take it easy,

very well put, I could not have said it better. The US has its own unique culture and socio-economic problems that require any solution to be tailor made for it. Just saying something works in X country doesnt mean it will work here. Japan has a very low crime rate....which has nothing to do with the availability of guns or weapons. We are willing to take higher crime rates in the US that go along with limited govt regulation, more personal rights and an individualistic mindset. We colonists have always believed in the natural rights guaranteed to an englishman more so then that of our original nation...at least this is what they royalists always wrote about us...and its pretty much the same today.