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  1. #1
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8020086.stm

    Three people, including a policeman and a suspected left-wing militant leader, have been killed in a raid on a flat in Istanbul, Turkish officials have said.
    A civilian bystander was also among the dead. Six police officers were injured, some by shrapnel from explosives.
    Interior Minister Besir Atalay said the militant was a leader of a little-known group linked to Kurdish separatists.
    The raid was one of 60 carried out by police overnight against groups said to be planning "sensational attacks".
    More than 40 people were detained in the co-ordinated operations across Turkey's largest city, Mr Atalay said. Weapons, ammunition, bombs and explosives were also seized by the security forces.
    Grenade
    The minister said 11 of the suspects were members of the Revolutionary Headquarters, one of whose alleged leaders was killed in the raid on a block of flats in the Bostanci district that began at around 0530 (0230 GMT) on Monday.
    Smoke billowed from the block of flats in Istanbul during the raid on Monday

    "It is a leftist group which is also linked to the separatist group," he said, referring to the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).
    The group had in the past carried out attacks on military targets and an office of the ruling Justice and Development (AK) Party, he added.
    The dead militant, who Mr Atalay identified as Orhan Yilmazkaya, had told police by radio that he was from the Revolutionary Headquarters.
    "I am a fighter and will fight until the end," he said in one purported conversation broadcast on Turkish television afterwards. "I will probably be killed, but our struggle against fascism, terrorism will go on as it did in the past."
    Istanbul Governor Muammer Guler said three police officers had been injured when a grenade thrown by the militant had exploded nearby.
    "In a second explosion, four more officers were wounded. They were rushed to nearby hospitals," he told the NTV channel.
    One of the officers was initially said to be in a critical condition. Turkish media later reported that a senior commander had been killed.
    A civilian standing outside the building died after being shot in the head. Television footage had earlier shown a man lying motionless on the ground nearby in a pool of blood.
    Operations just before 1 May.....I don't know which faction this guy belonged to. Some say he was related to PKK. This could be because they try to show left as equal to being terrorist.
    3 guys stood in fighting in the house for 6 hours.....police could not defend the civillians. It's a shameful operation, hope they kick out who ever lead it. I feel like this could be solved without anyone, including the "terrorist" being killed simply by filling the house with various gasses and heavily armored police rushing in.
    Instead it was a firefight that lasted for hours against what...3 guys. And they 2 escaped, 1 sacrifised himself.

    I'm not a supporter of terror nor seperatism. But what happened here was heroic. The guy sacrifised himself and clearly stated it. And he is not some guy from a poor village, he is well educated(political science from a high ranking university) person.
    And I just found out information about the organization the guy is linked to. Bascailly these "terrorists or freedom fighters" are for democracy and socialism and brotherhood between Kurdish and Turkish people. And from what I have read, they seem to be pretty intellectual. And I'd be for their cause for certain if they're like what they claim. Not by using terror obviously.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  2. #2

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    democracy and socialism and brotherhood between Kurdish and Turkish people.
    Well two out of three ain't bad.

    I'd not be too quick to use the heroic tag though, until I found out who they were planning on blowing up.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Well two out of three ain't bad.
    agreed. democracy is overrated

  4. #4

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I'm not a supporter of terror nor seperatism. But what happened here was heroic. The guy sacrifised himself and clearly stated it. And he is not some guy from a poor village, he is well educated(political science from a high ranking university) person.
    And I just found out information about the organization the guy is linked to. Bascailly these "terrorists or freedom fighters" are for democracy and socialism and brotherhood between Kurdish and Turkish people. And from what I have read, they seem to be pretty intellectual. And I'd be for their cause for certain if they're like what they claim. Not by using terror obviously.

    I agree. The Kurdish people live a second-class citizens existence in Turkey. They had a nation of their own in the past which was then divided up amongst the neighboring countries by the colonial masters who had no regard to existing ethnic boundaries when they divided up the land amongst themselves...making new countries. The Kurdish nation is now split between Turkey, Iran and Iraq, and the Kurdish people stateless.


    I dont buy into the turkish government's claim about the so called "terrorists". Its the very same government that threatened to invade northern Iraq if the Kurds in Nothern Iraq(which, ironically was once part of Kurdistan) asked for more autonomy.

    If turkey insists on not treating these people equally..and continues to illegally occupy their land...one cannot but help see similar events in the future.
    The Ancient Martial Arts Of Southern India Kalari+Varma adi










  5. #5

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    I agree. The Kurdish people live a second-class citizens existence in Turkey. They had a nation of their own in the past which was then divided up amongst the neighboring countries by the colonial masters who had no regard to existing ethnic boundaries when they divided up the land amongst themselves...making new countries. The Kurdish nation is now split between Turkey, Iran and Iraq, and the Kurdish people stateless.


    I dont buy into the turkish government's claim about the so called "terrorists". Its the very same government that threatened to invade northern Iraq if the Kurds in Nothern Iraq(which, ironically was once part of Kurdistan) asked for more autonomy.

    If turkey insists on not treating these people equally..and continues to illegally occupy their land...one cannot but help see similar events in the future.
    Ummm... which 'Kurdish' nation are you referring to exactly? Historically, they've never had one, and have always existed on the border between Persia and whatever power happened to be in control of Anatolia. The reason why their region has been historically undeveloped is also because they were in a contested zone. Furthermore, they've always willingly joined whatever state happened to be the most powerful in the region, instead of creating one of their own. That's as true in the case of the Turkish Republic as it is in the case of the Great Seljuk state a millenia ago, or the Ayyubid Caliphate before them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuri Orlov
    I didn't know there were leftists in Turkey... I assumed the whole political spectrum was Kemalists vs. AKP..
    Hasn't the PKK become more of a nationalist org, rather then leftist?
    Not really, they're still quite leftist, though they've stepped back a little from the extreme Marxist-Leninism of their early days. The Kurdish regions' poverty is how they gain support for their cause. That's why Turkish government development projects (like the GAP dams) and economic targets (like the oil pipeline from Iraq) have been their primary focus since the late 1980s.
    Last edited by Crimson Scythe; April 27, 2009 at 09:10 PM.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    turks claiming the PKK are the most evil things in the world in 3.. 2.. 1..
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Life is Rubbish View Post
    turks claiming the PKK are the most evil things in the world in 3.. 2.. 1..
    you are going on a wall with this


    pkk are terrorists, it's a fact, nothing more nothing less

  8. #8

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    I didn't know there were leftists in Turkey... I assumed the whole political spectrum was Kemalists vs. AKP..
    Hasn't the PKK become more of a nationalist org, rather then leftist?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    The only way to solve this is to encourage the kurds to move to Australia

  10. #10

    Default Re: Istanbul siege leaves three dead

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I'm not a supporter of terror nor seperatism. But what happened here was heroic. The guy sacrifised himself and clearly stated it. And he is not some guy from a poor village, he is well educated(political science from a high ranking university) person.
    Bravo..... You just praised and supported a terrorist who killed people. May I remind you three attacks that newly minted organisation (a cross of PKK and DHCP) carried; the attack on Selimiye Barracks, the attack on Istanbul AKP headquarters (a police died), the bombing at Bağcılar (more than 15 civilians dead, including a 9 months pregnant woman).

    A killer is a killer even he has a university degree. It does not change that he is an animal.

    And I just found out information about the organization the guy is linked to. Bascailly these "terrorists or freedom fighters" are for democracy and socialism and brotherhood between Kurdish and Turkish people. And from what I have read, they seem to be pretty intellectual. And I'd be for their cause for certain if they're like what they claim. Not by using terror obviously.
    Yes, they are intellectually killing people. You know, this way does not hurt much.
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