11% of British Army is foreign

[Каие]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6168981.ece

THE British Army’s “foreign legion” of soldiers recruited abroad to fill its ranks has expanded to more than one in 10 of all troops.

NonUK nationals now number about 10,430, just less than 11% of the army’s full-time troops, excluding reserves, according to new figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.

Some nationalities have become so numerous that they could form their own units in the manner of the Nepalese Gurkhas. The number of Fijians has reached 2,110, the strength of a small brigade. Other nationalities such as Ghanaians and South Africans have also increased to 700-800 each, enough for a battalion apiece.

Some fears have been voiced that burgeoning numbers of nonUK soldiers could foster a “mercenary” image, while other critics believe the armed forces’ British identity could be endangered.

In all, the figures show that 38 foreign nationalities are represented in the army, nearly all from the Commonwealth. These do not include the 3,600-strong Brigade of Gurkhas, recruited in Nepal.

The actual numbers could be even higher, because the Ministry of Defence (MoD) admitted it was not able to identify the nationalities of 1,140 personnel from across the armed services.
The disclosure of the figures comes as new rules were announced last Friday about the eligibility of Gurkha veterans to settle in Britain.

Those discharged before 1997 will only be allowed to stay if they fulfil a number of criteria such as completing 20 years’ service or receiving a bravery award. The decision was condemned as “insulting” by campaigners for former Gurkhas.

The army has now put a cap on the number of Commonwealth recruits in some units at 15% “in the interests of operational effectiveness”.

The influx of foreigners has helped compensate for the army’s problems in retaining British-born soldiers. It began encouraging applications from abroad 10 years ago after a requirement to have lived in Britain for five years was lifted. Army recruiting teams now visit countries such as Fiji and some Caribbean nations to help process the large numbers of applicants in advance.

The Caribbean has supplied the army’s most famous foreign-born soldier, Lance Corporal Johnson Beharry, who won a Victoria Cross in Iraq and is from Grenada.

The number of Fijians in the forces as a whole has grown from just 10 in 1999 to 2,220 in January, the figures show. One attraction for the army is the Fijians’ prowess at rugby. Last year the army’s 12-man sevens squad included 10 Fijians and a South African. Its captain, Mark Lee, was the only British player.

The Ghanaian contingent in the armed forces has expanded by 40% since 2006 and now numbers 740. Other growing contingents include 840 South Africans – up 45% in the past three years – Gambians, Malawians, St Lucians and Kenyans. Jamaicans, however, have dropped from 930 in 2006 to 600.

Excluding Gurkhas, the number of foreign and Commonwealth troops totalled 6,830, with a further 850 in the army whose nationality was unknown.

Serving Commonwealth soldiers said there were a variety of reasons for joining up. Apo Satala, a Fijian private in the Royal Regiment of Scotland, who joined the army in 2000 and is now a star rugby player, said: “Fijians have a warrior fighting spirit in them which helps in joining the army. Back home, living wasn’t to their [UK] standards. It’s good coming over, bringing your family across, schooling and all this stuff. They quite look after you from the welfare side. The only thing that affects us is the weather.” Tom Pounder, 45, grew up in South Africa before joining the British Army, including spells in the Royal Green Jackets and at Sandhurst. He is now a Territorial Army officer.

“For most of us in the Commonwealth, this is the mother country,” said Pounder. “This is where the basis for those countries’ armies has been built.”

Nick Harvey, the Liberal Democrat defence spokesman, said: “There must be some sort of natural limit to quite how far it’s desirable for this to go. One hesitates to use emotive terms like mercenaries but clearly you’re beginning to travel somewhere onto that spectrum.”
An MoD spokesman said: “The armed forces recruit the right calibre of people to maintain operational effectiveness and we welcome all British and Commonwealth nationals.”

Why is this such a problem? I still cannot work beyond nonsense, why people have such an issue with the fact that a portion of the Army is foreign.

Mercenaries my arse. They come from the former Empire, the Commonwealth, their ancestors died for Britain and have secured Britain's freedom in the past, why should their ancestors be denied the same opportunity to serve to ''protect the Britishness of the British army'' what ever the hell that means.

No one had a problem with the fact that 80% of British Army was Indian in WW2, and no one seems to have latched onto the fact that ever since the British Army was founded it has always been manned by huge numbers of non-British people, I.e. Irish.

Truth be told we are under manned, stretched very very thin, and fighting an un-winnable impossibly long war in Afghanistan. With recruitment numbers going down drastically in the UK, to the extent that WAR and DEATH is no longer mentioned in the now holiday like Army brochures, and on top of all the benefits which are being handed out as bribes to push people...

..if no Englishmen, Scot or Welshman wants to sign up and fight for Britain, there are 50 Australians, South Africans, Fijians, Nigerians, Pakistanis, Indians, Canadians to take their place.

If it bothers you so much then;

• set up a South African Battalion or Fijian Brigade.
• While we're at it, we should recruit more of those Ghurkas, something like 25,000 apply every year with only a handful chosen.
• Or perhaps create a whole branch of the army to be called the ''Commonwealth Forces'' in a similar style to the USMC.

If anything we should recruit more of these heroes who are more than ready to do a necessary and ancient service for this country in it's time of need.

We should be bloody grateful.

[S.L.I.G]

Quite unfortunate news about the British army.

[GeneralLee]

Quite unfortunate news about the British army.

Maybe they should encourage it?

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-13-voa18.cfm

US Army Recruits Immigrants, Rewards Them With Citizenship
By Paige Kollock
New York City
13 April 2009

New military recruits
New Army recruits
The U.S. Army is stepping up efforts to recruit more skilled soldiers by offering immigrants a fast track to U.S. citizenship if they enlist.

The move comes as the Pentagon prepares to send several thousand more troops to Afghanistan and with the war in Iraq in its sixth year.

The U.S. Army chief of staff, himself, swore in a group of recruits at a ceremony in New York. Half of the 32 new Army recruits are immigrants from countries such as Pakistan, India, South Korea and Bangladesh.

General George Casey welcomed the new soldiers, recruited under a new initiative called MAVNI - Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest. It's a pilot program that promotes enlistment as a short-cut to U.S. citizenship. Recruits are required to have at least two years of legal U.S. residency.

Lieutenant Colonel Margaret Stock says the Army is looking for people with language skills or medical expertise. "We're also looking for people who have cultural ability. They understand certain cultures that we are dealing with. We found, in our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, that having people who were culturally knowledgeable is critical to success on the battlefield," Stock said.

So far, the MAVNI program, which began in February, has enlisted 52 new soldiers, 60 percent of whom are college graduates. The Army wants people who speak one of 35 languages it deems "strategic."

Stephen Chi speaks Cantonese and four other languages. He will be working as a petroleum supply specialist. He says he enlisted, not for the U.S. passport, but for the camaraderie. "I grew up in Norway, my parents are Chinese, so joining the Army will give me a chance to really belong to somewhere," he said.

Twenty-four-year-old Toniya Mishra, who will start as a water treatment specialist, says the Army approached her after finding her resume on the Internet. While her starting salary is less than she hoped to get with a masters degree, she says there are other perks. "They provide insurance for your family, and you get to travel a lot in different countries, and it's better than doing anything else in a market like this today," she said.

For the recruits, the next stop is basic training, a rigorous nine weeks of physical fitness, discipline and training.And some then will go to Iraq or Afghanistan, where they could face the dangers of combat.

Krishna Melpati - a medical doctor from India - has a concern. "My only fear," Krishna says, "is like, getting through the basic training."

So far, 380 people have applied. The Army says it will accept up to 1,000 before the program expires in December.

[S.L.I.G]

Maybe they should encourage it?

No, they should discourage it.

[King Edward III]

Don't have a problem with it myself, god knows how many Indians died during WW1 and 2.

[Babur]

Don't have a problem with it myself, god knows how many Indians died during WW1 and 2.

yuh you owe us big time! thanks for India gate though

[Stavroforos]

This is good news, especially considering the service Commonwealth / Imperial troops have provided Britain in the past.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Since Nationalism is no longer a strong propelling force for masses of recruits, and since most armies are being redesigned as smaller, high quality national defense and counter-insurgency ops whether or not the guys comes from Britain, the Commonwealth or anywhere else does not matter, as long as he does the job well and fills the ranks.

[Adar]

Since Nationalism is no longer a strong propelling force for masses of recruits, and since most armies are being redesigned as smaller, high quality national defense and counter-insurgency ops whether or not the guys comes from Britain, the Commonwealth or anywhere else does not matter, as long as he does the job well and fills the ranks.

Nationalism is still a very strong propelling force.

Tom Pounder, 45, grew up in South Africa before joining the British Army, including spells in the Royal Green Jackets and at Sandhurst. He is now a Territorial Army officer.

“For most of us in the Commonwealth, this is the mother country,” said Pounder. “This is where the basis for those countries’ armies has been built.”

I can also tell you the story of a new recruit at P7, Revingehed in Sweden. Conscripts normally get to go home for the first time 2 weeks after starting their service. The officers send them home at lunch and start processing all the paperwork. At 4pm they get a message from the guard, "We have a situation here, the parents of one our soldiers brought their son here". When they come down they find one of their soldiers with a huge blue eye and his very angry parents behind him.

In the Iraqi army, where the father had served. They did not get to go home 2 weeks after joining. So thinking that their son had deserted from the army and failed to do his national service. They beat him up and bring him to back to the very surprised officers at the regiment.

An officer I know used this as an example of how strongly some immigrants connect with their new nation and also how you sometimes need to prepare for cultural collisions. Especially many kurdish families take pride in sending their sons to the Swedish army which means that they are slightly overrepresented in the conscript army. Personally I served with 2 Kurds, 1 Turk, 1 Thai and one half Japanese soldier in my company. I did not notice any differences in nationalistic fervor, reliability or ability to reach our objectives when comparing these men to us ethnic Swedes.

[Babur]

Nationalism is still a very strong propelling force.

Not at all,look at Russia for example where nationalism there is state sponsored.People still dread joining the army despite it, one of my Russian friends told me that he would bribe his way out of joining .

[Father Jack]

I have no problems with this what so ever. I dont particularly see anything wrong with soldiers coming from the Commonwealth and former colonies to join the British army and Im very certain that this 'Britishness' of the army will not be lost. Their ancestors fought and died for Britain and the Empire in numerous wars in the past, and I think the battalion/regiment idea would be a good idea. I seem to remember plans for the army to form a Sikh regiment.

[Father Jack]

delete

[Carach]

New labour thought they would expand upon their positive discrimination policies by including the Armed Forces aswell.

nah personally i dont care. but just how many of them know theyre not ever going to be allowed in this country, despite their years of faithful service? (ghurkas..)

[Lord Consul]

Exactly 41 years and 6 days ago... This man delivered the infamous "Rivers of Blood" speech:



I guess those "brownies" spilling their blood for merry Britain isn't all that bad, is it?

[Bovril]

If anything we should recruit more of these heroes who are more than ready to do a necessary and ancient service for this country in it's time of need.

What do you mean by hero in this context? Does someone who is ready to kill and die for a foreign country (albeit one that may have ruled their own country decades before they were born) for a good wage automatically become a hero in your eyes?

[Hilarion]

What do you mean by hero in this context? Does someone who is ready to kill and die for a foreign country (albeit one that may have ruled their own country decades before they were born) for a good wage automatically become a hero in your eyes?

I consider anyone who's ready to fight/die for me a hero.

[Mikelus Trento]

I consider anyone who's ready to fight/die for me a hero.

I would consider them a mercenary.

[Каие]

What do you mean by hero in this context? Does someone who is ready to kill and die for a foreign country (albeit one that may have ruled their own country decades before they were born) for a good wage automatically become a hero in your eyes?

Is an English soldier a hero?

[Hunter Makoy]

Is an English soldier a hero?

Quite right. If someone who is willing to die for their country is a hero then someone willing to die for somebody else's country would certainly be at the top as well.

[C-Rob]

i dont' know why anyone woudl be bothered with this, Oh I'm goign to go complain because an aussie is goign to go die in war and my son is going to stay home. A man with a gun is a man with a gun. They all shoot the same, they all die the same. I woudln't be bothered in teh slightest if the US just up and made a foreign legion. OUt of who, or where, i dont' know, but I would not really care. More boots on the ground is always good.

It makes me dislike the UK slightly less.