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  1. #1

    Default Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Dave, first of all, I have to say that I love and dearly appreciate all of the work you have done. You have truly made a great game into an extraordinary game! In playing your mod, I have come to appreciate the changes you have made over some of my other ideas. However, there are, as one might say always room for improvement, and as each individual person has preferences, I came upon a great idea that I thought would compliment your mod all the better.

    I love the way that you revised the recruitment system and truly the ai build far superior armies. However there is one thing I never really understood that occurred to me in assisting the building of better armies by the ai, though I fully understand their purpose for the human player. That is, peasants being able to be build by castles.

    Here me out, for in addition to this problem follows a solution, that I propose to the community.

    Other than being a cheap unit with high numbers to assist with garrison duties for city happiness, peasants are utterly worthless in battle. The other issue I ran into was that in your mod, most castles start out upgraded to at least the point of building sergeant spearmen. In addition, as every ai and player will upgrade their castles to build elite units as soon as possible, peasants get cut off (and rightfully so) by the EDB recruitment tree. In addition, besides rarely in slave armies, I have never seen peasants in any solo game I've played.

    The issue came up when I found this great mod (though this isn't at all my proposal to you) in which I needed/wanted to add in 4 more units, dismounted knights templars, dismounted knights of st john, dismounted knights of eddessa, and dismounted knights of tripoli to the guild halls Templars Guild, Order of St john guild, and factions Antioch and KoJ respectively.

    Upon analizing the EDU, I discovered that you have maxed out at 500 units.

    So I went about creating a solution, which is what I propose for consideration now.

    First I realized that to add the new units from this submod, I would need to delete 4 at a minimun from the EDU and associated files. The most likely candidate was sherwood archers (not recruitable by default, though I added them back in as recruitable for england in my slight variation of your mod) or peasants. But the problem arrose that there would now be no unit recruitable at the most basic barracks level for castles.

    So I resolved to come up with a solution for this problem, which led me to an epiphany. Now I know this will destroy at least one level of difference between the city barracks and castle barracks tech tree, but I find this solution to be even more viable on all levels and solving many problems that popped into my mind.

    And so the following solution I propose to benefit both this mod, overall gameplay, ai army composition, the immersion factor, and the added benefit of allowing you to have more slots to add any units you might have not been able to from the expansions due to the hard code limit.

    I, for my mod at least, and what I propose, is to delete all peasant units (JUST THE MELEE, Not PEASANT ARCHERS!!!) from the EDU, this includes aztec peasants, ME peasants, EE peasants, NE peasants, and SE peasants (I think that is all of them), though I may decide to just leave highland rabble as they are, and etc. for other factions, or I might delete and replace them just the same to open up more slots in the EDU. Or even leave the basic peasant units recruitable for slave only.

    This opens up 5 new units slots, and 10-15 texture slots from the 500 and 1000 hard coded limits respectively.

    To replace the lost unit, we make town militia recruitable at the basic castle level. This allows for even more effective garrison reinforcement for the player (by allowing town militia/order militia (tuetons)/associated unit for each faction to be built at the castle and marched to cities who can give FREE UPKEEP, rather than cheap upkeep, or a marginally more expensive upkeep which is worth the added combat ability which provides a unit that can at least strike the enemy once before running away) and maintains at least the most basic of fighting unit from the castle tech tree, besides pitchforks (spear and shield more realistic). Not to mention the immersion factor that even peasants recruited to fight in any sort of professional army were historically given some sort of crude weapon, with spears being cheap, easy to use, and effective, and possibly but not usually a shield).

    This in turn solves my problem of being able to add 4 or 5 new dismounted units to the game, a new dimension to the guild halls, maybe even going as far as to add dismounted knights of santiago or teutonic knights).

    But the point for you mod is to allow you to add in more units if you like, improve ai army composition by providing better troops (I even prefer the idea of town militia being recruited to defend castles than peasants, for were not castles of the most importance and of the most prestige?) recruitable early on, and by solving the recruitment slot issue for castles?

    To solve the uniqueness problem, I may just make a duplicate in the EDU, and rename them Peasant Militia or something much same way that peasant crossbowmen and militia crossbowmen are identical.

    Just some food for thought.
    Last edited by FortressofRain; April 24, 2009 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Hi FortressofRain, you are completely right about there always being room for improvement. Although I am quite proud of what I have been able to achieve (especially with recruitment in the age of gunpowder) I know its not perfect. Btw I will post a new thread explaining all of my recruitment changes in detail soon. And I will welcome all constructive criticism on it.

    Although I have added every new unit from Kingdoms which makes one hell of a difference to the Grand Campaign I think. Some extra new units would be nice, yes. I think removing peasants is a good idea because as you rightly point out this mod does not start off with every single building at the bottom level. Also I think you might find a few more units that can be cut from the EDU. Only today I was looking through it and noticed elephants for the timurids were still there. And yes sherwood archers should not be in the game England have enough archers and don't need robinhood units

    Finally I don't recommend increasing recruitment slots in castles. This is something I did in past versions, I believe I have it set perfect now. The problem is the AI, you have to be very careful. Castle units are what ruins the AI upkeep. Letting them recruit more each turn will make there economy hit rock bottom earlier. Its really tough to stop the AI from building up really ridiculous upkeep costs. When I had an extra castle slot before I was seeing some faction with 40,000 plus upkeep per turn. You don't see that now anymore, its closer to 20,000. I also reduced the replenishment pools slightly, this helped a lot. The AI can still go into debt of course but its not as bad as before.

    Dave

  3. #3

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Hmm, I don't remember anywhere mentioning increasing recruitment slots, or anything of that nature. I was simply suggusting that you cut all the peasant units and make town militia recruitable in their place to keep A UNIT in that slot in the EDB. I appologize if I wasn't quite clear. I agree and think that as of now you have it set perfect, for recruitment slots and recruitment in gunpowder age.
    Last edited by FortressofRain; April 24, 2009 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Ah, sorry I'm very tired and did not read that right then.

    I agree and think that as of now you have it set perfect, for recruitment slots and recruitment in gunpowder age.
    Many people will probably never notice my hard work on this because they do not play far enough into a campaign. Ashame really, but I still think it was worth all the effort personally. If you compare it to vanilla (where all happens is units become available for recruitment) but the AI does not recruit any different, its 100 times better in my mod than how CA left it.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; April 24, 2009 at 05:26 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Great idea, however I don't think dave will add new units, he did tell us he released his last version and he doesn't want to put anything non vanilla into the mod.
    Correct me if I'm wrong dave

  6. #6

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Sure I understand. The main thing is, also for game balance, KoJ and Antioch can recruite Eddessan and Tripoli squires from the basic level. I started by editing the EDB and adding in all of the basic units from the basic city barrack to replace the peasants, and kept the squires for KoJ and Antioch recruitable. Just replaces peasants with:

    recruit_pool "Welsh Militiamen" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { wales, }
    recruit_pool "Town Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, portugal, norway, }
    recruit_pool "Order Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { teutonic_order, }
    recruit_pool "Syrian Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { jerusalem, antioch, }
    recruit_pool "Italian Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, }
    recruit_pool "EE Town Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { poland, lithuania, hungary, }
    recruit_pool "EE Archer Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { russia, }
    recruit_pool "SE Town Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
    recruit_pool "ME Town Militia" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { moors, turks, mongols, timurids, }
    recruit_pool "Ceitherne" 1 0.4 2 0 requires factions { ireland, }
    recruit_pool "al Ashair" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { egypt, }

    The only one that is out of place is the Russian archers recruitable from the Barracks, but if this supports their culture archtype then it is a good thing.

    The next step is to clean up the EDU, etc. One problem I did run into right after deleting from the EDU is descr_rebels.txt. Have to go in and change all the peasant units to appropriate faction units, same for the descr_strat I'd imagine for starting armies.
    Last edited by FortressofRain; April 26, 2009 at 06:22 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Also, was it your intentions to delete elphants from the Turmids? I might remove them from EDUetc., but I wonder why you would remove this unique unit from them first?

    Elephant Mercs also remain.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Wales replaced the timurids in version 3.6 of this mod, the timurid invasion has been removed. Also elephant mercs are recruitable in north africa and the middle east after gun powder. Don't touch them, a total war game wouldn't be complete without ele's

    Also zero is right, this would be a nice idea for a submod. I promised I would not do anymore updates.

    Dave

  9. #9

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    So I've started and here's what I've done so far.

    So basically my goal is to delete peasants from the game entirely. I started by changing the EDB to make approriate units or Town militia recruitable in place of all peasants.

    Next I deleted peseants from the EDU.

    Next I deleted code lines for peasants in the export_unit.txt.strings.bin, in text file, deleted bin file, ran program to make new bin file. Good.

    Next I deleted all peasant entries in descr_strat.txt.

    Next I recieved an error log for descr_rebel_factions.txt. So I went in an replaced all peasants with Town Militia ro appropriate unit, including the ones for gladiator uprising, and briggands entries at the top.

    Then when I start the game everything works fine, menus, go to grand campaign, pick factions, start new campaign, intro movies load, loading bar comes up, but CTD right before strat map comes up.

    I think the problem lies somewhere in either descr_regions, or as a result of the changes I made in descr_rebel_factions.txt.

    All files are in mod folder folder.

    I don't know if there is something I forgot to delete that the game must regenerate or if there is something else wrong. The log file suggusts that it doesn't know what my rebel factions are and wants to replace then with gladiator uprising. Anyway, please read my log file and suggust what might keep the game from loading up correctly, perhaps a hardcode that peasants must remain in relation to the gladiator uprising event, which doesn't exist in M2TW. I'm cluelss. I know how to do most of the work myself, but I don't have a lot of experience error solving.

    I read another post and don't know which all files are tied to the ones I am editing. Which if any of the following are related or possibly could be causing the problem: bm.mdb, descr_rebel_factions, descr_sm_factions, campaign script, descr_mercenaries, descr_strat?

    The only files I've touched so far are EDU, EDB, descr.strat (deleted the two peasant armies), descr_rebel_factions (replaced peasants), and export_unit.txt.strings.bin (technically the text file, deleted discriptions).

    Esp what does the bm.mdb file do?

    Thanks for the help!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Forgot the log file...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Idea for Improvement - or Submod

    Nevermind, figured it out. Missed the top line of the error log...added ownership of wlesh militiamen to slave. It works flawless so far. I'll test more later.

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