View Poll Results: What do you think?

Voters
80. You may not vote on this poll
  • Under Military Rule

    21 26.25%
  • Under Civilian Rule (Democratic)

    8 10.00%
  • Under Civilian Rule (Authoritarian)

    5 6.25%
  • Under Taliban Rule

    7 8.75%
  • In Civil War

    34 42.50%
  • Who cares? Its not like they have nukes.

    5 6.25%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54

Thread: Pakistan In 5 Years

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Pakistan In 5 Years

    What is your opinion on what this nation's status will be in 5 years?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Capitulated to the Taliban, then invaded and annexed by India.

  3. #3
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Capitulated to the Taliban, then invaded and annexed by India.
    I don't think India will even want to annex it.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  4. #4
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    I don't think India will even want to annex it.
    They will have no choice due to the existence of Nuclear weapons.

  5. #5
    Panzerbear's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bellevue, WA
    Posts
    9,352

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Corrupt and authoritarian civilian rule with terrorist problem unresolved. There will be no surprises, so dont hold your breath.

    Throw away all your newspapers!
    Most of you are Libertarians, you just havent figured it out yet.

  6. #6
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerbear View Post
    Corrupt and authoritarian civilian rule with terrorist problem unresolved. There will be no surprises, so dont hold your breath.
    I kinda agree in a different way maybe. I think the problem with the Taliban will get worse and they will establish total control over the tribal regions and continue to threaten Islamabad creating a civil war type situation where the Pakistani governments controls the Eastern Half and Taliban the North-West.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    I think the military is going to step in at some point and some ambitious general is going to use the broadening Taliban situation to assume control of country.

  8. #8
    Frankie88's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hiding at your local Ikea stealing furniture parts at night.
    Posts
    432

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Can't we just send a couple of SAS teams in to nick their nukes . Or maybe a couple of ambitious TWC members, I have always liked the idea of owning a nuke.
    Last edited by Frankie88; April 24, 2009 at 02:56 PM.
    How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

    - Woody Allen

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie88 View Post
    Can't we just send a couple of SAS teams in to nick their nukes . Or maybe a couple of ambitious TWC members, I have always liked the idea of owning a nuke.
    You don't just "nick some nukes", do you? Personally I have never seen one, so I have no idea regarding the size but I suppose the nuke itself is quite small while the rocket is quite big...

    Plus, stealing a large quantity of it will be very hard

    Were you even serious btw?
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
    "At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques."

    Bill Shankly

    "Not badly, considering I was seated between Jesus Christ and Napoleon"

    David Lloyd George was pleased with his performance at Versailles.

  10. #10
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Germany, Freiburg
    Posts
    8,270

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishoss View Post
    Personally I have never seen one, so I have no idea regarding the size but I suppose the nuke itself is quite small while the rocket is quite big...
    since i am forming a twc commando right now to carry this thing out you are so off the list now. you do not qualify - sorry.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    since i am forming a twc commando right now to carry this thing out you are so off the list now. you do not qualify - sorry.
    Aww, but I wanna die as well

    Visna: Walking back and forth 60 times waiting for the Pakistani Army/Taleban to show up won't be any fun
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
    "At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques."

    Bill Shankly

    "Not badly, considering I was seated between Jesus Christ and Napoleon"

    David Lloyd George was pleased with his performance at Versailles.

  12. #12
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,991

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishoss View Post
    Plus, stealing a large quantity of it will be very hard

    Were you even serious btw?
    No worries about the quantity, they only have 60 or something. It's kinda heavy to carry the warhead itself, but nothing a few of the more manly members of TWC couldn't handle.

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

  13. #13
    Frankie88's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hiding at your local Ikea stealing furniture parts at night.
    Posts
    432

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Visna View Post
    No worries about the quantity, they only have 60 or something. It's kinda heavy to carry the warhead itself, but nothing a few of the more manly members of TWC couldn't handle.
    Thats the spirit, lets make TWC a nuclear power all we need is somebody with a shed and a pickup truck
    How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

    - Woody Allen

  14. #14
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    THE NORTH
    Posts
    14,490

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Visna View Post
    No worries about the quantity, they only have 60 or something. It's kinda heavy to carry the warhead itself, but nothing a few of the more manly members of TWC couldn't handle.
    If you keep account of them I'll do the pulling Now where to store 60+ warheads?

  15. #15
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Germany, Freiburg
    Posts
    8,270

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    i voted the last coz its funnier then the taliban option

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    Grand Theft Nuke IV: Pakistan.

  17. #17
    Nikos's Avatar VENGEANCE BURNS
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    12,216

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    I voted under Democratic civilian control/ I don't think things will be that different in 5 years.
    Learn about Byzantium! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Toward-Warfare
    Civitate
    ,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator

    Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
    In Patronicum sub Celsius


  18. #18
    ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔'s Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,181

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    I chose the who cares option because I don't. But if i had to guess, I would say under military rule of the US with a civilian gov't being set up.

    It is my great honour to have my poem Farmer in the Scriptorium here.

  19. #19
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    6,757

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    More likely a military coup will take place, and compromises made with the Taliban to create a semi-Islamic nation not unlike Iran.
    Older guy on TWC.
    Done with National Service. NOT patriotic. MORE realist. Just gimme cash.
    Dishing out cheap shots since 2006.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Pakistan In 5 Years

    The worst thats gonna happen is that the Taliban are going to end up breaking the treaty, whereas then the army will (finally) wage war with them. By the Way, i found a good article that sums up this entire situation quite nicely...

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=173480

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Tuesday, April 21, 2009
    Mosharraf Zaidi

    The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy.

    The young lust that infuriates the fascist Flintstones of Malakand is only the beginning of the love chronicles that will extinguish the little ember that they mistake for a raging fire. The little ember they mistake for populist wildfire is disenchantment with the failing state in this country. Unfortunately for these comedic miscarriages of reality there is only one raging fire in Pakistan. It is the fire in the cities. Sure there are randomly distributed fascist mullahs in the cities too, and many of them have taken the choreography of Sufi Mohammad to heart. But if it was so easy to convert the madrasas of this country into the nodes of a bloody fascist Flintstone revolution, it would have already happened.

    The real love affair that the Taliban and their ilk should be scared of is the incandescent passion with which Pakistanis, religious and irreligious, love this big, bulking behemoth of a country. March 15 may be a long and distant memory in the newspapers, but its markings on the DNA of Pakistan are still fresh. The scars that it has left are still raw, and the traditional elite in this country has not forgotten the humiliation of that day. Both the feudal politicians and the wannabe-feudal military leaders in this country grossly mis-underestimated (a Bushism all too appropriate for this Pakistan) the size and heat of the movement to restore the judiciary. The Taliban, the TNSM and the Lal Masjid Brigades repeat the mistakes made by the traditional elite, for good reason. Their DNA is imprinted with the "Made By The Traditional Elite of Pakistan" label. And let's not be blinded by opportunism, paralysed by our romance for family dynasties or constrained by our personal politics. The defence establishment in this country that has cultivated irrational public discourse under the cloak of religion in Pakistan has not been alone in the endeavour. Their feudal dance partners have been central in enabling and facilitating the rot. Controlling the mosques with their left hands, and the triggers of civilian and military guns with their right--the traditional elite have caved in to the demands for Nifaz-e-Adl because they prefer the faux wrath of a perverted distributive justice agenda to the real and irresistible agenda for reform and renewal in Pakistan's cities.

    The MQM understands this urban agenda for reform and renewal better than any political party in the country, which is why, despite the clear and obvious threats that a free judiciary poses to the operational fidelity of the MQM, the party made a conscious decision not to allow another May 12 to transpire this March. It is also why the MQM has spoken loudly and proudly against the ridiculous handing over of Pakistani sovereignty to the Flintstones of Malakand. Most of all, the MQM's depth of relationship with urban sentiment is evident in the starkly different rhetoric that defines engagement with the issues between Pakistan's Gucci and Prada liberals on the one hand, and the MQM's leadership on the other. Convening an ulema conference was a stroke of urban Pakistan genius by the party. No self-respecting secular, progressive liberal (sic) would be caught dead at such a convention. Hence the difference between the MQM (a serious power-player in this country), and cheese and cracker liberals (a loud but politically sterile minority). As much as the lawyers' movement was an a-religious movement, it was not amoral. And Pakistan's people (even the ones in nice cars in the city working for banks and educated in the American Midwest) still draw moral inspiration primarily from Islam.

    Since handing over the mosque to the wretched of South Asia at Sir Syed Ahmed Khan's request, Muslims here have slowly but surely abdicated their faith to a newfangled clergy. Their primary instrument in sustaining their ownership of the mosque and madrasa, and all the symbols that go with them, is a supremely confident ignorance.

    The language of religious discourse is dripping with Islamic symbolism. There is no reason for Pakistan to be shy of engaging the clergy with the same symbols. Indeed, it is the uncontested monopolisation of those symbols that has enabled the current rot. More often than not, the mullahs will lose the argument. Ignorant rants have a very short lease of life. Simply put, there are more Hakim Saids in Pakistan's Muslim history than there are Sufi Mohammads. Fought properly, there is only one outcome in the battle for the soul of Pakistan--victory for the peace-loving masses, and defeat for the firestorm-fanning agents of irrationality.

    Of course, the MQM represents a deeply compromised flag-bearer for the political fight against the Taliban. Despite a much-reformed party agenda, the ethnic affiliation of its top leadership is an issue that has consistently kept it from growing beyond urban Sindh. Moreover, rather ironically, its political choices since 1999 have put it directly at odds with urban Punjab. Ultimately, the alliance between urban Sindh and urban Punjab is a natural and inevitable one. This inevitability was all too visible to President Asif Ali Zardari, and it is what inspired the unnatural alliance between the PPP and the MQM--two parties that were at opposite ends of the violence and mayhem of May 12. Despite the federalist benefits of the PPP-MQM alliance, and the dangers of a rural Sindh that has no allies in either Punjab or in Karachi, this political expedience has a limited shelf life.

    Of course, the challenge in Punjab is the PML-N's ability to continue to be a vessel for the articulation of urban Pakistan's political ethos. Taking on the mullah without abdicating its centrist Muslim identity is a critical challenge for the PML-N. Traditionally, it has been assumed that the natural role of taking on the mullah belongs to the PPP. Today's PPP, lacking the brilliance of a Bhutto as its field marshal, is hurting. It is unable to seamlessly integrate the feudal tendencies of its electoral strength with the urbane (not urban) sensibilities of its somewhat exceptional cadre of highly qualified advisors. The growing wisdom and alacrity of the prime minister notwithstanding, the PPP will take at least a generation to grow into a viable force in Pakistan's new urban frontier. Until then, to stay alive, compromise with the most unpalatable negotiating-table partners is all the party can do. This is doubly true for the ANP, which has been unfairly burdened with the blame for the deal. In fact, the ANP has done what every party other than the MQM will do in the same situation. Without a military that is willing to take the battlefield heat, political parties have no choice but to find compromise solutions to intractable problems.

    None of the Realpolitik of the day, however, alters the bottom-line truth about Pakistan in 2009. There is a big set of unresolved issues around which violent extremists are able to construct a rationale for their murderous campaign for power. The resonance and appeal of these issues is undeniable. The bloodshed at Lal Masjid in 2007, the covert sexual revolution that has taken place on the back of a massive telecom boom, and the collateral damage of drone attacks, all have serious play in mainstream Pakistan.

    But these issues are not the sole informants of Pakistaniat--to use Adil Najam's phraseology. They are among a larger galaxy of issues. Proof of this is in the political performance of the rightwing, even as recently as the Feb 18, 2008, elections. Despite the bread-and-butter nature of these issues in urban and rural Pakistan, the religious right failed to win back the gifts handed to it by the deeply flawed elections of 2002. The key question is not whether the religious right in Pakistan can mobilise meaningful numbers to actualise its vision for a strait-jacketed and irrational Pakistan. They cannot. Even though these issues are shared across a broad spectrum, the religious right is tone-deaf, and politically irrelevant. And if the JUI and JI and their cohorts can't win the street, the Taliban don't have a chance.

    The key question, therefore, is not about the populism of the Taliban, the TNSM, or any violent extremists in Pakistan. It is whether Pakistani Muslims will remain hostage to their sense of religious inferiority to the mullah. In fear of violating the precepts of a faith to which most Pakistanis are still deeply committed, will the people give mullahs like Abdul Aziz of Lal Masjid carte blanche to destroy this country? The MQM's ulema conference may cause all kinds of squirming, but it answers the question unequivocally. No, they will not.

    The love affair of the Pakistani people with their country is a firewall that will hold. Violent extremists can flog the odd alleged straying couple, but they cannot flog 172 million people. They cannot win this war, and that is why they're so angry all the time.




Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •