New Big Three Toyota, Honda and Ford?

[GeneralLee]

True ford isn't doing well right now but its doing much better than its domestic competitors. Could it survive this slump and come out ahead?

Ford Motor Co. reported a first-quarter loss of $1.4 billion, bettering analyst expectations in the face of crashing sales.

Ford remains the only U.S. automaker to eschew federal aid, and today continued to insist it would not need bailout loans from the government. It has kept its head above water in part because of an aggressive cost-cutting program, as well as deeper cash reserves.
While General Motors Corp. and Chrysler have been forced by decades-low vehicle sales to turn to Washington for $17.4 billion in government loans, Ford has avoided such help, and instead claimed it will return to break even or profitability -- on its own -- by 2011...


...Because Ford borrowed $23 billion in late 2006, it has not suffered the same liquidity problems as its Detroit competitors, despite suffering similar sales declines.

Ford "is successfully differentiating itself from its wounded domestic competitors" said Efraim Levy, equity analyst at Standard & Poor's.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,7128570.story

[Erik]

No, it will be Toyota, Volkwagen, FAW

[Ishoss]

The new?

[Viking Prince]

GM after a reworking of the company will still have a 40,000 - 60,000 labor force. If they are also profitable they will still be #1 or #2. All of this talk is off of emotions and not the size and nature of the firms.

If you want to rank to auto assembly firms -- count employment and units produced and then rank them.

[OTZ]

I'd say Ford is doing pretty well lately...based on stock price alone it's up almost 200% in the last 6 weeks.

I believe VW is poised to become the world's leading seller...9 years ahead of schedule, IIRC.

[Mikelus Trento]

I would guess that Ford will do very well in the immediate future. Many folks who prefer to drive an American vehicle, but are not afraid to buy from Chrysler and GM will, by default, move to the Ford brand.

[Thanatos]

I shall continue to support Toyota and Honda. American cars suck.

[Cougman21]

What company had those commercials where trucks would go off ramps into rings of fire and get hit by cranes or w/e?...

On one side we have Toyota commercials showing nice little fuel efficient cars, on the other we have trucks breaking through brick walls...

[OTZ]

I shall continue to support Toyota and Honda. American cars suck.

What are you basing your opinion on? Personal anecdotes, actual statistics? Is it "american-built" cars, or "american-designed"?

Just curious, as I hear this often enough, but I never to think to ask how this opinion is formed...

From what I've read (combined with personal experience) both foreign and domestic auto-makers have the the same "failure" rates or mechanical default rates?

Or, perhaps, I should be asking - what aspect of American cars "suck"? I may have incorrectly initially assumed this opinion was founded upon the technical differences....

[mrmouth]

Just curious, as I hear this often enough, but I never to think to ask how this opinion is formed...

Its not supported by anything other than ignorance (sorry Thanatos). The numbers support the exact opposite.

The whole issue is based on perception. And its a wrong perception. The US auto industry deserves all the blame, but more than anything it deserves blame for not combating the ignorance surrounding its cars.

I mean, the fact that some here claim that VW is more reliable, proves the point. They are at the very bottom of the list. And even in terms of value, they suck. (and I always really have loved VW's ever since I owned a '85 rabbit, great VW)

[Panzerbear]

I mean, the fact that some here claim that VW is more reliable, proves the point. They are at the very bottom of the list.

who told you that VW are more reliable? they are utter POS of a car when it comes to German cars. I used to own a VW. NEVER AGAIN WILL I DRIVE ONE (and will never recommend it to anybody else).

And even in terms of value, they suck. (and I always really have loved VW's ever since I owned a '85 rabbit, great VW)

lets give the VW credit where the credit is due. they are both cheap and nicely designed (at least interior materials are very good). and this is where the positives abount VW end .

[Chlodwig I.]

who told you that VW are more reliable? they are utter POS of a car when it comes to German cars. I used to own a VW. NEVER AGAIN WILL I DRIVE ONE (and will never recommend it to anybody else).



lets give the VW credit where the credit is due. they are both cheap and nicely designed (at least interior materials are very good). and this is where the positives abount VW end .

What kind of VW did you drive and when?

because they are neither cheap nor unreliable
THe price of a VW in its class is somewher close to a BMW or Audi (by the way most Audi use VW parts and are based on VW Models)
The Cheap Car segment is targeted by VW brands like Skoda and Seat

[mrmouth]

who told you that VW are more reliable? they are utter POS of a car when it comes to German cars. I used to own a VW. NEVER AGAIN WILL I DRIVE ONE (and will never recommend it to anybody else).

Just a few people in this thread. Other than that, since the glory days of the bug, everyone knows that are near the bottom of the list. Powertrain wise, they are just as solid as any modern auto, but you will have issues with just about everything else.

lets give the VW credit where the credit is due. they are both cheap and nicely designed (at least interior materials are very good). and this is where the positives abount VW end .

Maybe they are cheap in the European market, but they are not what I would consider cheap here in the states.

Lets look at the Jetta. Its ranked around 5th or lower, in terms of value in its class, on most online ranking publications. You are also going to end up with a car that is fairly terrible in terms of MPG. And perhaps the worst thing that has always plagued European imports, is how the price skyrockets once you start to add common sense options.

When we shopped for my fiances new car, in which we looked at the Rabbit and the Jetta, the killer for us was the fact that while both MSRP'd about the same, at $17,000, they quickly ballooned over $22,000 with options. The Jetta was near $25,000 with the options on the Toyota we finally bought.

So we bought a Toyota Corolla Sport, and for $20,000, got every single option, a sportier car, and much better MPG at 26/35, compared to 21/30 of the VW's. When she drove it out East last summer, she got 41 MPG on the interstate.

[Cougar109]

Wouldn't say they are the "new" big three seeing as how GM, Ford, and Chrysler haven't been the "big three" since the 1960's.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Well generally speaking American cars tend to be overpriced, inefficient, have very old design features (like perpendicular leaf springs) and handle poorly, compared to Japanese and European ones.

Plus the build quality is shoddy compared to all Japanese (though Toyota have slumped in this regard recently) and German cars, and mediocre compared to French and British.

I would suggest that styling is generally inferior as well (with a few notable exceptions), though this is largely a matter of taste. I will say this though: American classics are unbeatable for sheer coolness.

[GeneralLee]

Well generally speaking American cars tend to be overpriced, inefficient, have very old design features (like perpendicular leaf springs) and handle poorly, compared to Japanese and European ones.

Plus the build quality is shoddy compared to all Japanese (though Toyota have slumped in this regard recently) and German cars, and mediocre compared to French and British.

I would suggest that styling is generally inferior as well (with a few notable exceptions), though this is largely a matter of taste. I will say this though: American classics are unbeatable for sheer coolness.

Sorry to call this out but Im doing a project on Ford Motor Company right now..

DETROIT - People might have to stop making all those jokes about the quality of Ford’s cars — the ones that say Ford stands for “Found on Road Dead” or “Fixed or Repaired Daily.”

Now, it could be “Fixing Our Reputation Daily.”

Ford Motor Co. supplanted Toyota as leader of the pack in J.D. Power and Associates’ annual initial quality rankings released Wednesday, grabbing more individual awards than any other automaker for the first time since 1998, when it tied for the top spot.

The article is from 2007 and in 2008 Toyota passed Ford but not by far, keep in mind attaining these rankings requires years of work.

(strength from my internal audit of ford)
Quality Production:
According to JD Power Ford has raised its quality level to match that of its overseas competitors. Out of 37 makers Ford scored 8th in overall quality. Mercury, a Ford division was 6th. Ford also scored 13th in dependability, well ahead of the industry average. Its divisions Lincoln and Mercury took 5th and 8th respectively. JD Power is an important measurement of how good a auto manufacturer is doing from an RD and Production standpoint. The industry is very competitive and it can takes years of effort to dramatically change ones ranking.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...e-#page-anchor

Oddly VW was near the bottom of JD power dependability rankings. (it beat suzuki) While Mercedes and BMW have lower dependability rankings than Ford and Chrysler while they were intermingled with the GM divisions.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Sorry to call this out but Im doing a project on Ford Motor Company right now..

Thanks, interesting read.

I haven't come accross newer Fords, to be honest, so I base my opinion on only the ones Ive come accross.

Do you happen to know if the new models use as much old technology as before?
Like leaf springs, gearboxes designed in the 70s, etc...

[GeneralLee]

Thanks, interesting read.

I haven't come accross newer Fords, to be honest, so I base my opinion on only the ones Ive come accross.

Do you happen to know if the new models use as much old technology as before?
Like leaf springs, gearboxes designed in the 70s, etc...

Um don't quiet know what your referring too. Im fairly sure ford phased out leafs on its cars in the 80's trucks and SUV's still used them through the 90's but that's fairly common when your primary concern is load weight not performance. The only real point of annoyance with ford doing something ass backwards is when ford put solid rear axles on all of the 05-09 mustangs even though the 01-04 mustang cobras (they tend to act as trend setters for future mustang models) had independent rears. That and if you had the misfortune to own a late 90's Taurus Ford put drum brakes on it to save money .

[ivan_the_terrible]

Um don't quiet know what your referring too. Im fairly sure ford phased out leafs on its cars in the 80's trucks and SUV's still used them through the 90's but that's fairly common when your primary concern is load weight not performance. The only real point of annoyance with ford doing something ass backwards is when ford put solid rear axles on all of the 05-09 mustangs even though the 01-04 mustang cobras (they tend to act as trend setters for future mustang models) had independent rears. That and if you had the misfortune to own a late 90's Taurus Ford put drum brakes on it to save money .

Sorry, the leafsprings may not have been on a ford. I distinctly remember reading about an american car from 2000-something that had one set of leaf springs for the back, fitted perpendicular to the car. Might have been a GM, not sure...

[eddy_purpus]

My support will always be on Ford , and VolksWagen .....
The new chinese cars suck so bad!
I dont want to see any of those near me cos i would get herpes and hepatitis .....
Their designers are not original ...
the copied various cars designs of very well known firms..











JK JK




Theyre cheap ... thats what i dont like about it...
and by cheap i mean theyre cheaply made...