The Blond Greeks

**EireEmerald** · April 23, 2009, 05:02 PM

This is something that has puzzled me for many years. From every book I have read on Greek history, including the odyssey, it seems many greeks had blond hair. Now, this might have been a far-fetched fantasy, maybe the people of greece found blond hair attractive, I don't know, but does anyone know the distribution of the blond gene in Greece BC?
I remember hearing in a Documentary years and years ago of a migration of germanic people into greece BC but i don't know when this was. As far as I remember in the iliad Achilles is described with blond hair. I also wanted to know why modern Greeks seem completely different to the ones portrayed in their stories and out general knowledge of these once philosophical peoples.

**Alhamar** · April 23, 2009, 05:06 PM

If the books point out blonde people was because of a reason, it was a rare thing and that make them easy to recognise. Same happened in ancient Ireland. Nothing to do with aryans or germanic invasions. U dont need to be blonde, tall and blue eyes to be a great philosopher, modern greeks look probably as those of old.

**EireEmerald** · April 23, 2009, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Alhamar

If the books point out blonde people was because of a reason, it was a rare thing and that make them easy to recognise. Same happened in ancient Ireland. Nothing to do with aryans or germanic invasions. U dont need to be blonde, tall and blue eyes to be a great philosopher, modern greeks look probably as those of old.

What about the ottoman occupation of Greece? would that not have given them turkish leanings in terms of genetics.

**antaeus** · April 23, 2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Eire_Emerald

What about the ottoman occupation of Greece? would that not have given them turkish leanings in terms of genetics.

genetically, its actually the opposite...

the peoples of greece and anatolia are still genetically similar to those who were there 2 or 3 thousand years ago...

when the turks arrived, they came in bands of a few thousand at a time, and settled in towns and cities whos populations outnumbered them massively. the turks were genetically absorbed by the people who they conquered... but the conquered peoples were culturally absorbed by the turks.. its a process which has had a lot of discussion on here...

the same is true for the ancient greeks, i would suggest for the most part ancient greeks looked like modern greeks.. the fact that some greeks were blonde is no different to their being a few greeks and turks now who are blonde now. it doesnt mean there was any great nordic influx..

its just how genes spread over geographic areas naturally as people intermarry over thousands of years.

**Last Roman** · April 24, 2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by antea

genetically, its actually the opposite...

the peoples of greece and anatolia are still genetically similar to those who were there 2 or 3 thousand years ago...

when the turks arrived, they came in bands of a few thousand at a time, and settled in towns and cities whos populations outnumbered them massively. the turks were genetically absorbed by the people who they conquered... but the conquered peoples were culturally absorbed by the turks.. its a process which has had a lot of discussion on here...

the same is true for the ancient greeks, i would suggest for the most part ancient greeks looked like modern greeks.. the fact that some greeks were blonde is no different to their being a few greeks and turks now who are blonde now. it doesnt mean there was any great nordic influx..

its just how genes spread over geographic areas naturally as people intermarry over thousands of years.

what he said exactly.

**dogukan** · April 24, 2009, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Eire_Emerald

What about the ottoman occupation of Greece? would that not have given them turkish leanings in terms of genetics.

Well Ottomans peoples were a big mixture....so Ottomans themselves had large amounts of Greek genes. The funny thing is, those Turks who were sent to Balkan peninsula are probably more Turkic than Turks in Anatolia.
Besides there is the fact that a lot of Turks came from Caucus region(by mixing with them...in anatolian culture the influence of Caucasian genes/culture is very very extremely significant..and sometimes even dominant. Heck I'm 1/4 Laz/Georgian

**Alhamar** · April 23, 2009, 05:12 PM

Well many many turks share the same genetic background of the greeks, also there was population trasvase after the greek independence. I dont think there was this huge influence being ethically ''similar'' and looking at the historical factors.

There are blonde hair and light eyes in Turkey too.

**Keravnos** · April 23, 2009, 05:22 PM

I have blue eyes and am 1.90 m but if anyone called me Aryan, I'd think this was an insult, as it seems to infer that there is some difference between me and any fellow human being.
To me an Aryan is something like IT (see pic)

and that THING is nothing I want to be involved with, in no association whatsoever.
Genetics being what they are, there is no way a single person can be a 100% Aryan or whatever it is you want to call it.
The theory I consider true is the one that speaks of mass migration of peoples from what is now Ukraine, into all Eurasia from Taklamakan desert to India and Iran and all of Europe. That was a long time ago. Occupation by foreign powers and other things such as population movements due to pressures from elsewhere would alter our makeup. The fact of the matter is that we are ethnically greeks, inheritors of a very old language and some of us have so called aryan "characteristics" (even if I consider this a swear word) or non.

**Il Duce** · April 28, 2009, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Keravnos

I have blue eyes and am 1.90 m but if anyone called me Aryan, I'd think this was an insult, as it seems to infer that there is some difference between me and any fellow human being.
To me an Aryan is something like IT (see pic)

The history of 'Aryan' is so much deeper than the common misnomer associated to the word today that your post is almost insulting to history.

**Keravnos** · April 28, 2009, 10:44 PM

I know what Arya is historically, and what it stands for, for the Original poster therefore I know what it can be or can't be associated with. I opted to disassociate with the aforementioned IT otherwise known as Hitler.

I have absolutely no problems with the original Aryan Iranians, but unfortunately when speaking of anAryan today, a whole different thing comes up.

If my post is insulting to history, IT was devastating to history. 62.000.000+ dead devastating.

**Watchman** · April 29, 2009, 05:49 AM

...although from what I know of it, the Iranians refuse to oblige Euro-American issues with their self-identification. Kinda like Far Eastern Buddhists tend not be overly concerned with the bad rep the swastika has over here.

**Dracula** · April 29, 2009, 01:43 PM

It is not necessary to associate the blond gene with the arians/germans. Blonde hair can be found on every other kind of people from the white race.

**Alhamar** · April 23, 2009, 05:30 PM

Quite radical. We can talk about genetics and human features without being rascist or even recognise the existence of ''races'' in amongs the human.

**Watchman** · April 23, 2009, 05:47 PM

Aryans are more or less these guys, retarded Nordicist fantasies nonwithstanding. Obviously, the ancient Greeks didn't exactly have a very close connection.

Anyway, blondism is a genetically recessive trait and as such pretty much per definition could only ever become reasonably common among relatively isolated (read as "inbred") populaces, for example the piss-poor ancient Northern European stickpickers. 'Course, sheer exotica value elsewhere made those expressing the pigmentation particularly wont to attract the attention of an observer's (hence leading to stereotypes about "blonde barbarians beyond the Alps" and so on) and people looking for mates...

**nce_wht_guy** · April 23, 2009, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Watchman

Aryans are more or less these guys, retarded Nordicist fantasies nonwithstanding. Obviously, the ancient Greeks didn't exactly have a very close connection.

Anyway, blondism is a genetically recessive trait and as such pretty much per definition could only ever become reasonably common among relatively isolated (read as "inbred") populaces, for example the piss-poor ancient Northern European stickpickers. 'Course, sheer exotica value elsewhere made those expressing the pigmentation particularly wont to attract the attention of an observer's (hence leading to stereotypes about "blonde barbarians beyond the Alps" and so on) and people looking for mates...

I wish I could rep you....

**Norge** · April 24, 2009, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by nce_wht_guy

I wish I could rep you....

Why exactly? What did Watchman cover that wasn't already said by Keravnos two posts above?

**★Bandiera Rossa☭** · April 23, 2009, 05:54 PM

Well Aryan is an improper word for a blond haired person (Although due to their location there could be Aryan Greeks)....As far as I know there were many diverse genetic groups in ancient Greece..I also think that there has probably been more recent mixing with Slavic and Turkish peoples..

**EireEmerald** · April 23, 2009, 06:18 PM

okay maybe aryan was the wrong word to use but you all got what i meant.

**Demetrios of Messene** · April 23, 2009, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Eire_Emerald

I don't know, but does anyone know the distribution of the blond gene in Greece BC?.

Do you honestly believe that there are such kind of statistics or modern trustworthy theories on this subject?!!!

I remember hearing in a Documentary years and years ago of a migration of germanic people into greece BC but i don't know when this was.

The only vaguely similar event I can recall is the invasion of the gauls in the 3rd century BC.

I also wanted to know why modern Greeks seem completely different to the ones portrayed in their stories and out general knowledge of these once philosophical peoples.

This is abstract and makes little sense to me. Could you elaborate?

In the meantime you may want to have a look at this link from youtube from 4:00 to 4:40. I provide this link only to show that everything is a matter of perspective. And as already posted earlier be mindful that genetics are unfortunately a path that may lead to nationalism or racism.

**EireEmerald** · April 24, 2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Demetrios2008

Do you honestly believe that there are such kind of statistics or modern trustworthy theories on this subject?!!!

The only vaguely similar event I can recall is the invasion of the gauls in the 3rd century BC.

This is abstract and makes little sense to me. Could you elaborate?

In the meantime you may want to have a look at this link from youtube from 4:00 to 4:40. I provide this link only to show that everything is a matter of perspective. And as already posted earlier be mindful that genetics are unfortunately a path that may lead to nationalism or racism.

Please excuse my ignorance in Greek ethnics. it is not something we study in great detail in Ireland, just a curiosity of mine.

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