ReallyBadAI Battle System +Hardcore + Settlements v5.7 >Oct 17< ###quality taken to next level###

**krolyn** · October 10, 2009, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

@krolyn
That's very odd, AI should attack when you have huge advantage in missile troops (it's set to 1.5x). I'll see if there's any setting justifying such behaviour, another problem is the fact that AI's defending scheme is very limited - it's not half as flexible as attacking. When settings were a bit different I was getting complaints about AI attacking too often.
The mentioned stakes script is an "ancient" version.

I made a version of the routing script to fit stakes+reinforcements or stakes only. Copy-paste contents of the attached file to G5Script.txt and G5Script2.txt found in SS/data/scripts/show_me/ (paste it just before "wait_monitors" line at the bottom). It's a relatively basic script, I could add % chance to rout when gates/walls are breached - provided that anyone actually wants to try it.

Regards

How does M2TW calculates "advantage in missile troops"?
In this battle the AI had the advantage in missilie troops in terms of number but not in terms of technology. if I remeber correctly, the AI had ~6 highland archers (skirmisher) and I had 2 ballista, 2 archers (skirmisher) and 2 urban archers (missile). The big difference is that urban archers and ballista have higher range than skirmishers and I can attack them while keeping out of range...

I'll give it a try at this script and let you know.
For me, everything that makes the game more reallistic or the AI behave "smarter", I think it is worth it!
I would like to try it since it is more realistic than a fixed number of units routing but can you make it dependable on general comand points and, unit current moral (or other)?

However, making the defenders rout on walls/gate breach will further favour the attacker. Maybe now it will make more sense to add some of those changes I mentioned to you to balance things eg. (decrease ram speed, decrease gate strength, increase number ladders/towers, etc..)

**krolyn** · October 10, 2009, 12:14 PM

Got a CTD when attacking a rebel settlement a couple of seconds after clicking "start battle".
Think it has got something to do with your "Battle AI Switcher script v2" script since there are lots of references to "show_me/G5Script.txt" (see log below).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Germanicu5** · October 10, 2009, 12:56 PM

@krolyn
"Advantage" is calculated by unit strength - it depends on unit stats.

Ye, routing script can be surely improved, I wasn't certain if there'd be enough interest. I can't make it dependent on command stars or current morale, there's no suitable code available. I can use random % and being under fire trigger for instance.

I'm thinking about making some changes to sieges, but currently I'm busy with gathering ideas and trying to solve elephants bug (again... probably with the same result).

This ctd is caused by reinforcements script, I could never make it "work" in campaign - it often happens when game engine is unable to clear some monitors in custom battles (usually when replaying a battle) or "Show me how" is pressed multiple times during one session when playing a campaign.
I could use more info: did you play a custom battle before? did you (possibly) press "show me how" during a battle in 1st turn? did you play any battles before? was it in the same turn or in previous turns? were there reinforcements present during your previous and current battle?

Thx in advance, regards

P.S. BattleAI switcher isn't in any way connected to MTW, it's a small program that randomly copies AI files.

**krolyn** · October 10, 2009, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

@krolyn
"Advantage" is calculated by unit strength - it depends on unit stats.

Well, maybe lowering the 1.5 strength threshold...

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

Ye, routing script can be surely improved, I wasn't certain if there'd be enough interest. I can't make it dependent on command stars or current morale, there's no suitable code available. I can use random % and being under fire trigger for instance.

I didn't quite understood the "being under fire trigger" part but I think probabilistically selecting units to rout can be a bit too much...
Either the probability is low or we can end up with the best units routing and leaving the defence of the shattered gate to a couple of militias.
Can you decrease the morale of the units?
Instead of unit routing you could just decrease a fixed amount of morale. Randomly select some units (with a probability) and decreasing its morale. This way, better units (with better morale) would maintain positions while weaker units (lower morale) had a bigger probability of routing.

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

This ctd is caused by reinforcements script, I could never make it "work" in campaign - it often happens when game engine is unable to clear some monitors in custom battles (usually when replaying a battle) or "Show me how" is pressed multiple times during one session when playing a campaign.
I could use more info:

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

did you play a custom battle before?

No.

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

did you (possibly) press "show me how" during a battle in 1st turn?

I'll assume that the "1st turn" for you is the first turn played since loading the game (not the turn #1).
If so, I really can't remember...

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

did you play any battles before? was it in the same turn or in previous turns? were there reinforcements present during your previous and current battle?

yes, there were battles in the campaign in previous turns and a couple of them had reinforcements.

Don't know if it helps but after the CTD I loaded the game again on the same battle. The advisor pop-up, I clicked "show me how" and started the battle: CTD ater a couple of seconds.
However, I then tried the same battle again but without clicking "show me how" and it went fine....

PS - sorry about some confusing sentences but these ideas are not that easy to explain...

**Germanicu5** · October 10, 2009, 02:27 PM

Very interesting, if you still have a savegame, plz upload it, if not, keep one for me in case the game ctd's for the same reason again, it'll be much appreciated.

Ad. routing script - I'm just limited by the list of conditions game engine allows. There's no way to choose particular units based on their attributes etc. It'd need to be random, based on some factors like random chance for routing when under enemy fire and gates are broken through. Sadly any morale set via commands is locked at this level, so if I set "wavering" it'll stay so until the battle finishes.

Ad. 1.5 threshold - 1.5 is pretty low, actually it's the lowest value ever for this mod and no other AI I know uses lower value. I'll fiddle with other settings though when I have some spare time.

Regards

**krolyn** · October 11, 2009, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

Very interesting, if you still have a savegame, plz upload it, if not, keep one for me in case the game ctd's for the same reason again, it'll be much appreciated.

Here is the save game (see attached). the CTD happened when attacking Bruges:
- Load game
- attack Bruges with King (army with 4 spear militias)
- click "show me how"

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

Ad. routing script - I'm just limited by the list of conditions game engine allows. There's no way to choose particular units based on their attributes etc. It'd need to be random, based on some factors like random chance for routing when under enemy fire and gates are broken through. Sadly any morale set via commands is locked at this level, so if I set "wavering" it'll stay so until the battle finishes.

well, I just think "setting" to wavering can be a bit too much but ew can give it a try and see how it goes....

PS
I know that it has nothing to do with your AI but just a general question:
in the "descr_campaign_ai_db.xml" file there are these lines:

<trusted_ally_fs_threshold float="0.2"/>
<trusted_ally_target_fs_threshold float="0.2"/>
<trusted_ally_target_human_fs_threshold float="0.2"/>
<trusted_ally_gs_threshold float="-0.3"/>
<trusted_ally_target_gs_threshold float="-0.3"/>
<trusted_ally_enemy_auto_war bool="false"/>

just wondering why "trusted_ally_enemy_auto_war bool" is set to false. shouldn't the purpose of an alliance be that your allies go to war with you in case you're attacked?

**Germanicu5** · October 11, 2009, 09:41 AM

Hmm, it doesn't crash on my PC, I tried 3 times now, even in the night. Maybe check if you have Kingdoms 1.05 patch installed (either check readme or log file - log should have a line as below in the beginning). Otherwise I have no theories, apart from improper installation. Do you use any submod apart from RR/RC ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Ad. routing - setting morale to any level apart from berserk/routing would have no effect on actual troop behaviour - it'd just be informative as set morale level can't change and when I give the control back to AI, it'll go back to steady in 2 seconds.

Ad. campaign AI - that's a mater of judging whether auto-war with trusted allies' enemies wouldn't cause too much chaos, apparently some AI modders think it would. Ofc you can modify it if you think it'd help, changes are savegame compatible.
Say you're Spain and you're allied to Cumans, you go to war with France, make peace after a few turns but Cumans have limited means of peacemaking/conducting war activities due to high distance between these 2 and it ends up with fictional 1000 years war

.

Regards

**krolyn** · October 11, 2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

Hmm, it doesn't crash on my PC, I tried 3 times now, even in the night. Maybe check if you have Kingdoms 1.05 patch installed (either check readme or log file - log should have a line as below in the beginning). Otherwise I have no theories, apart from improper installation. Do you use any submod apart from RR/RC ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Same version here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

Ad. campaign AI - that's a mater of judging whether auto-war with trusted allies' enemies wouldn't cause too much chaos, apparently some AI modders think it would. Ofc you can modify it if you think it'd help, changes are savegame compatible.
Say you're Spain and you're allied to Cumans, you go to war with France, make peace after a few turns but Cumans have limited means of peacemaking/conducting war activities due to high distance between these 2 and it ends up with fictional 1000 years war

.

Well, same happens with crusades/jihad... Join the crusade and automatically declare war on a country on the other side of the map. But I think you're right, it becomes a bit caotic...
But what is the advantage of alliances, now??

**Byg** · October 12, 2009, 10:24 AM

Hi, I'm having no problems so far using your ai, but it would be nice if ai cavalry or even infantry made an attempt to encircle or flank. Can anything be done in this regard?

**soulson** · October 12, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Byg

Hi, I'm having no problems so far using your ai, but it would be nice if ai cavalry or even infantry made an attempt to encircle or flank. Can anything be done in this regard?

Agreed.

**Germanicu5** · October 12, 2009, 04:20 PM

I'm doing some work on campaign scripts atm, but I'll have some spare time soon. The issue isn't so big, outflanking is very good (as seen in custom battles), just the pattern along which AI chooses battle plans in a campaign needs to be adjusted - if it's to defend, you won't get any fancy outflanking moves. Ofc if AI is too aggressive, I'll get complaints as well - been there, done that

.

Regards

**TheJigglymonkey** · October 12, 2009, 06:36 PM

hello G5, love your work man. But could I ask u a question about PB's latest compilation and hotfix (oct12b)?

I just had a siege battle where my army of 9 units had attacked a castle with one unit garrisoned and an army of 9 units (both rebel armies) that had entered in as reinforcements. I had purchased siege equipment (4 sets of ladders and a ram) but left most of the goods on the ground when i started, as to keep ai out of my soon to be fortress...while the other army slowly approached in the distance. After taking the castle center, I had noticed that the reinforcing army had stopped moving and was in a defensive posture @ some distance from my walls...not even close to tower range and they waited there until I won the battle by the clock countdown.

When I was taken back to the campaign, instead of expecting the unit to retreat the army of 9 units was destroyed instantly.

Why didn't the ai attempt to take the castle back from me in the battle? There was a battering ram available and unattended...2 sets of ladders were in place (and defended by my units) but is this a problem with the reinforcement scripts (or lack of! I'm just using the RR/RC compilation + hotfixoct12b with his BAI and maybe a good reinforcement script isn't included?)

any input on what you might think the problem is would be great,
cheers

**Germanicu5** · October 12, 2009, 07:02 PM

Hey,

thx for feedback, justa a quick question, I'll refer to the post as a whole later on. Could you please upload a savegame?

Regards

**TheJigglymonkey** · October 12, 2009, 07:54 PM

hmm, not sure if your referring to me but I'd be fine with giving you a my saved game but I don't know how...

. Which folder can I find it in?

**Byg** · October 13, 2009, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

I'm doing some work on campaign scripts atm, but I'll have some spare time soon. The issue isn't so big, outflanking is very good (as seen in custom battles), just the pattern along which AI chooses battle plans in a campaign needs to be adjusted - if it's to defend, you won't get any fancy outflanking moves. Ofc if AI is too aggressive, I'll get complaints as well - been there, done that

.

Regards

Well modders always get complaints and most people who are happy with a mod wont post, but anyway I think aggression is the AI's best weapon unless defending whilst the player has no missiles.
The thing that really makes battles for me too easy is the hill advantage that I always get, but I understand there's nothing that can be done other than modding a flatter map (which I would prefer).

Sometimes the ai attacks when defending(and rightly so) but are they less inclined to flank in this scenario?

**Germanicu5** · October 13, 2009, 03:17 AM

@TheJigglyMonkey

They're in Stainless Steel/saves folder, please choose the one made just before the battle (default dir is: C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Stainless_Steel_6\saves\).
PB tried to fix a charge issue and accidentally changed one of settings responsible for better behaviour when far from target, it hasn't been corrected yet in RR/RC releases. It may be connected to hardcoded issues though - I suspect AI might calculate it had no chance and switched to defensive stance while smart CA programmers forgot to exclude sieges from such scheme. Reinforcements script would help, as it would force the army to move inside the settlement.

@Byg
Nothing can be done about hill advantage atm. I'm wondering... maybe I could put a timer on deployment so that player doesn't get so much time to do that (depending on size of player's army ~1-2 mins).

According to my knowledge AI performing an actual attack even when initially defending should include full flanking features etc, if you have a spare savegame with possibly interesting campaign battle setup, I'll gladly test it - custom battles don't include full complexity of AI's behaviour and battles I play during a campaign may just lack certain circumstances.

Regards

**Germanicu5** · October 13, 2009, 07:48 AM

I'm stil doing some campaign-related scripts, but I've decided to release very basic result of my long research on changing bugged hardcoded behaviour (it's very simple and yet extremely effective). Hopefully there's more to come as I learned to split AI's army into self-sufficient combatant groups etc.

This code fixes one of the most annoying (due to lack of proper basic AI settings) - the totally passive behaviour of armies composed mainly of cavalry (mostly comon with HA).

Scripts are meant to be used with October releases of my AI (the ones requiring clicking advisor).
Fix for bugged hardcoded behaviour of armies mainly consisting of cavalry:
HA FIX + scripts below, unpack to the main SS dir, enjoy.

**Byg** · October 13, 2009, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Germanicu5

@Byg
Nothing can be done about hill advantage atm. I'm wondering... maybe I could put a timer on deployment so that player doesn't get so much time to do that (depending on size of player's army ~1-2 mins).

According to my knowledge AI performing an actual attack even when initially defending should include full flanking features etc, if you have a spare savegame with possibly interesting campaign battle setup, I'll gladly test it - custom battles don't include full complexity of AI's behaviour and battles I play during a campaign may just lack certain circumstances.

Regards

You'd have to make setup time less than 3 seconds to prevent me deploying on a hill and even then after deployment phase it is often, but not always easy to 'turn' the ai off a hill and place myself there. I kind of like the idea of no deployment phase though, it would certainly cause some battles to be lost and give the AI an equal chance initially.

**Germanicu5** · October 13, 2009, 08:29 AM

I'm pretty sure I can make GGR (G5's Grim Reality

) for battles

.
Here's a little attempt on more "siege thrill", I dusted it at krolyn's request - this version, now called Panic Script, gives a 50% chance of switching off your cursor for 10 secs when enemy breaks gates/walls

. Dodge this.

**Gorrrrrn** · October 13, 2009, 09:16 AM

G5

testing the the new RC/RR compilation.
Very impressed with one battle where AI took a strong defensive position - on a hill, heavily wooded and then deployed stakes in the wood.
Suffice to say that my men exited the wood faster when they went in and facing the other direction.
I managed to rally a few and held my start position.
AI regrouped its forces and then swept out from its defensive position and swept me off the field of battle.
(OK next time I don't use city militia types out in the open!!)
Textbook.

--

However, I was testing a set-up for the TO, giving them catapults so they can assault towns better.
A couple of times I forgot to give them any ladders, rams etc in custom battles.
Both times the catapults targeted the gateways and nowhere else. Ran out of ammo. No damage to gate. End of battle.
When the TO had ladders the catapults targeted the walls. Army attacked when 1 breach open.
(not sure if that was lack of ammo, or scripted that way.)

Can catapults be targeted on walls and not gateways by the AI?
Can they have more ammo, and can the AI delay attacking until ammo exhausted or 2 breaches made?

thankee.

Thread: ReallyBadAI Battle System +Hardcore + Settlements v5.7 >Oct 17< ###quality taken to next level###

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Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

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Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, STAKES ENABLED FOR CUSTOM BATTLES### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts #Universally compatible version available#

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, FIX FOR HARDCODED HORSE ARCHERS BUG### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts

Re: ReallyBadAI Overhaul v2.03 >HOTFIX October 9 v2< ###TOTALLY REWORKED, FIX FOR HARDCODED HORSE ARCHERS BUG### - Stainless Steel, RR/RC Battle AI/Battle AI Switcher/Scripts

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