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Thread: Open carry debate in wisconsin

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  1. #1

    Default Open carry debate in wisconsin

    This thread is not about gun control, it is about open carry, so lets not derail the thread please, or the mods will be called in.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo.../43347632.html

    Van Hollen said it's legal to openly carry a gun on the street in Wisconsin and advised prosecutors that merely having a gun doesn't, by itself, warrant a disorderly conduct charge.

    The advisory gives those who choose to carry guns in public more confidence in doing so but isn't likely to spark a rush to arms, said Gold, who works with OpenCarry.org, a gun rights advocacy group based in Virginia.

    "Most of those inclined to do it already knew it was legal," said Gold, a 54-year-old photographer. "Those that choose to do so should be able to do so without interference."

    There didn't appear to be a noticeable increase in publicly armed residents Tuesday, but that could change.

    Van Hollen's memorandum removes the fear of prosecution that kept some people from carrying firearms openly in Wisconsin, said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, who expects "a flood" of people to begin doing so.

    "In Wisconsin, because you are foreclosed from any other way to defend yourself, you're going to see people open carry for personal protection," Pierce said.

    Wisconsin is one of 29 states that allow open carry, and one of just two, with Illinois, that prohibit carrying concealed weapons. Gov. Jim Doyle twice vetoed legislation that would have made it legal. In 2006, Doyle said concealed carry laws didn't make sense, but those who wanted to carry guns in Wisconsin should "wear it on your hip," the Wisconsin Dells Events newspaper reported.

    Reacting Tuesday to questions about Van Hollen's memorandum, Doyle said local communities should be able to adopt their own ordinances relating to guns. He said he objected to a 1995 law that barred municipalities from enacting gun regulations that are more stringent than state regulations and wiped out about 35 local gun-control ordinances.

    "To me it's a very different issue whether you're walking down Wisconsin Avenue in Milwaukee with a gun on your hip and . . . if you're carrying a hunting rifle through a town during hunting season," Doyle said..

    There are constitutional considerations regarding such ordinances, and Doyle's position would require a change to state law. He stopped short of calling for that Tuesday, but others did not.Van Hollen's memorandum refers to the 1998 constitutional amendment affirming the right to bear arms in Wisconsin, for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. The U.S. Supreme Court last year struck down a handgun ban in Washington, D.C., saying it was unconstitutional.

    Law officers preparing

    Meanwhile, some law enforcement officials are preparing to face more open-carry situations, and some are clear the memo won't change their approach.

    Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn said he'll continue to tell officers they can't assume people are carrying guns legally in a city that has seen nearly 200 homicides in the past two years.

    "My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it," Flynn said. "Maybe I'll end up with a protest of cowboys. In the meantime, I've got serious offenders with access to handguns. It's irresponsible to send a message to them that if they just carry it openly no one can bother them."

    In communities where shootings aren't as common, police say they'll at least be asking questions.

    "We all anticipate in the metro area that some people who are very passionate about this topic may exercise this right, and there may be reason for us to stop and talk to them," said Wauwatosa Police Lt. Dominic Leone.

    Cudahy Detective Dala Milosavljevic said Van Hollen's advisory creates a new atmosphere for police.

    "It's going to be like the Wild West where they have the holster strapped down to their leg," he said.

    But Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm said Van Hollen's memorandum changes very little for prosecutors, and few citizens are likely to begin openly carrying firearms as a result.

    In a practical sense, there are limited locations where it would be legal, given statutory prohibitions against carrying firearms in businesses with liquor licenses, in school zones or public buildings, he said.

    "I do have faith that the vast majority of people are going to continue to use the same sound judgment and not openly display or carry firearms in a public setting," Chisholm said.
    As you can see, even though its completely legal to open carry, the police who see anyone doing so are on orders to slam your face into the pavement, disarm you and then decide whether you have the right to be armed or not....WTF!!? Its not like they are only targeting people acting suspiciously or have reasonable cause, they are just blatantly harassing anyone who is obeying the law. Criminals do not open carry, so treating those law bidding citizens like they are criminals is just absurd. I guess its guilty until proven innocent in Wisconsin. this kind of harassment is especially unfounded when they are one of the only two states in the union to not allow concealed carry at all. So police are not even saying " heh, if you want to carry, thats fine, just do so concealed and you wont get harassed". No the cops are saying " we even got a memo saying this was legal , but the LAW we are going to harass you until you give up doing something perfectly legal".

  2. #2

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    I'm an advocate of concealed carry rights but I'm not sure if I'm on board with widespread open carry.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithie View Post
    I'm an advocate of concealed carry rights but I'm not sure if I'm on board with widespread open carry.
    it doesnt occur nearly as much in states with concealed carry laws. But wisconsin does not allow you to conceal carry, so your only option is open carry.

  4. #4
    Boer's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    I'd be tempted to carry a gun openly and then, when the cops arrest me, sue them for false arrest/police brutality. Frankly, I could take or leave open carry, but either way the cops need to follow the law.
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    André Masséna's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    I'd just prefer they allow Conceal and Carry. It would make it so much simpler.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    I never really got why they'd prefer open carry to concealed carry at all.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Well, I suppose its for safety that they want open carry, that or they just like the old rustic style.

    I also prefer concealed carry to open carry. Like, I don't want to walk into certain buildings with a firearm showing on my waste. It'd make people extremely nervous and I'd think I'd get the cops called on me all the time. That and I don't really want kids coming around me and being "Whoa, can I see it?"
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    a firearm showing on my waste.
    Isn't it kind of hard swallowing a gun to even get it into your waste? And wouldn't the waste kind of gum up the gun functioning?
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    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    In Indiana we just issue "carry" permits, it doesn't indicate if it must be concealed or not. Tho some of the police don't like it and will issue "disturbing the peace" citations for it.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    In Indiana we just issue "carry" permits, it doesn't indicate if it must be concealed or not. Tho some of the police don't like it and will issue "disturbing the peace" citations for it.
    funny huh. exercising your right is disturbing the peace

  11. #11
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    I prefer to just do conceal carry, however annoying it might be to have to do that.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    I prefer to just do conceal carry, however annoying it might be to have to do that.
    So do I, so do most people. But as I already stated, in Wisconsin and Illinois, they are not allowed that option, they are not even allowed the possibility ( like in new york where its a may issue state: but almost nobody get a permit). So if you want to carry in Wisconsin you have to do it in the open, and then you get assaulted by the police who refuse to obey the law themselves.

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    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    So do I, so do most people. But as I already stated, in Wisconsin and Illinois, they are not allowed that option, they are not even allowed the possibility ( like in new york where its a may issue state: but almost nobody get a permit). So if you want to carry in Wisconsin you have to do it in the open, and then you get assaulted by the police who refuse to obey the law themselves.
    Catch-22, anyone?

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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    It's Katrina all over again. A police officer shouldn't even have the reason to stop and talk to someone while they are acting well within the boundaries of the law.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    why do people want to carry their guns openly anyways? Which part of their body is so lacking in size that they need to compensate by carrying a ing gun on the street. It's kinda bizarre this kind of issue is even on open debate.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    Which part of their body is so lacking in size that they need to compensate by carrying a ing gun on the street.
    their feet?
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  17. #17
    Bovril's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Isn't openly carrying a gun a little dangerous? Won't you be more likely to be targetted by people who want to steal it or by the kind of idiot who sees it as a gesture of dominance, and feels they have to start something (this is very much how it works with knives here in the UK)? If they are going to let you carry, I'd have thought concealed was much better from citizen's point of view, though I can see how it could make things esier for the cops. Even so, its not like people who have ill intentions are going respect the rules on open carrying.

  18. #18
    Gertrudius's Avatar Hans Olo
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovril View Post
    Isn't openly carrying a gun a little dangerous? Won't you be more likely to be targetted by people who want to steal it or by the kind of idiot who sees it as a gesture of dominance, and feels they have to start something (this is very much how it works with knives here in the UK)? If they are going to let you carry, I'd have thought concealed was much better from citizen's point of view, though I can see how it could make things esier for the cops. Even so, its not like people who have ill intentions are going respect the rules on open carrying.
    This doesn't mean anyone can carry a weapon openly, it means that those who have the appropriate licensing and testing can legally carry a weapon openly. Statistically speaking, people with ill intentions don't have the appropriate licensing and as such what they do isn't really relevant for this discussion.

    Personally, I'm not a huge fan of open carry, as it creates problems that concealed carry does not. Having a gun visible makes you more vulnerable to discrimination by others (including law enforcement), also leaving you as an obvious target if a crime was happening in your vicinity, and it ends up leaving no one happy. I would rather that they allow concealed carry, but if that's not allowed, I have to say that open carry is an acceptable, if not as attractive second option.

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  19. #19
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovril View Post
    Isn't openly carrying a gun a little dangerous? Won't you be more likely to be targetted by people who want to steal it or by the kind of idiot who sees it as a gesture of dominance, and feels they have to start something (this is very much how it works with knives here in the UK)? If they are going to let you carry, I'd have thought concealed was much better from citizen's point of view, though I can see how it could make things esier for the cops. Even so, its not like people who have ill intentions are going respect the rules on open carrying.
    I think that concealed carry should be allowed universally without permit and that schools and government buildings should be open to these people to carry their guns concealed legally.

    The problem with open carry is that the gun can be unholstered by a criminal and then used on the owner.

    That happens with cops all the time.

    Many people carry concealed anyways without a permit. If they passed a law to allow universally allowed concealed carry you wouldn't notice anything unusual in the aftermath of its passage at all. Well except that criminals and spree shooters will be more intimidated because they don't know who has a gun or not.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Open carry debate in wisconsin

    most people who open carry are those people who own alot of acreage. Seeing as how were talking about farming country here, it makes perfect sense. Farmers and live stock owners often have trespassers on their property to contend with, feral animals attacking their livestock or at least destroying their crops and so forth. You do not want to run into a feral hog or a wild bore without a weapon on you. Truckers often carry just because they are hauling around alot of goods. Anyways it shouldn't matter you reason, sure it would be great if this state allowed concealed carry, as that's what most people who carry a gun do. But for this to be their only option and to get harassed by the police is ridiculous.
    Last edited by Gelgoog; April 23, 2009 at 02:34 PM.

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