On improving agents

[Agent Miles]

In my campaign as Egypt (VH/VH, no mods), I had a Jama and a Master Theologian’s Guild in Jerusalem. I had made a couple Imams and they started with 2 piety. Well I left them inside the city walls and over time they each got a monk and then some traits that increased their piety, even though they were not out converting heathens. I thought that the guild’s only improved agents at creation, but it seems that, at least with religious agents, they can improve them over time as well. I’m going to try this with merchants and spies/assassins, unless someone can confirm this.

[Silent Assassin]

In my campaign as Egypt (VH/VH, no mods), I had a Jama and a Master Theologian’s Guild in Jerusalem. I had made a couple Imams and they started with 2 piety. Well I left them inside the city walls and over time they each got a monk and then some traits that increased their piety, even though they were not out converting heathens. I thought that the guild’s only improved agents at creation, but it seems that, at least with religious agents, they can improve them over time as well. I’m going to try this with merchants and spies/assassins, unless someone can confirm this.

Guilds only improves your agents when recruiting them not after, to train your agents, like Iams, the train them faster put them on Lands where there is another religion, for Merchants put them on good trade ressources and try to take other merchants trade and so on with each agent in the game....

[Agent Miles]

No Rebel, the Imams were in the city where a guild was and they improved after they were created simply by being there. Try it.

[Silent Assassin]

No Rebel, the Imams were in the city where a guild was and they improved after they were created simply by being there. Try it.

I know that!! What I wanted to point out is that they will gain piety slower in cities compared to in regions.

[Agent Miles]

“Guilds only improves your agents when recruiting them not after”
I guess I misunderstood that line. However, they were increasing their piety just as well inside Jerusalem (at the guild), quite well actually.
The reason I brought it up is that in the guide from Daveybaby for Theologian’s Guild it states:
“City based guild which improves the starting stats of priests trained in the region.”, (my underlining), but nothing about increasing their piety by continued training in the settlement which seems to be the case. If everyone already knows this, then great!

[Silent Assassin]

“Guilds only improves your agents when recruiting them not after”
I guess I misunderstood that line. However, they were increasing their piety just as well inside Jerusalem (at the guild), quite well actually.
The reason I brought it up is that in the guide from Daveybaby for Theologian’s Guild it states:
“City based guild which improves the starting stats of priests trained in the region.”, (my underlining), but nothing about increasing their piety by continued training in the settlement which seems to be the case. If everyone already knows this, then great!

OK I understand you a bit more here,. what I meant by my posts aboved is that yes the guild should give a boost in stats for the agent when recruiting it, it is also true that Iams in cities will get better but rate is slower than if your Iam was on a region where another religion lives. Your Iams that are in cities will gain piety equaly and the guild won't make any difference at all, they only way they could be a difference from a city to another is if you would have just captured this city from another faction that had another religion than yours cause the populace that you didn't kill will take time to convert to your religion and the Iam in that city would train a bit faster then an Iam that is in a city with no other religious people living im it. It's the samw way the Iams work in regions.

So does that exaplins more and answers your questions.

Rebel6666

[Viking Prince]

Having the Master Guild helps in recruit training, but I am certain from your source the Imams can now be recruited anywhere and get the asist in recruit piety improvement. I have never seen any effects to make the Imams gain piety by strickly staying inside settlement walls.

However, I do find that it seems that Catholic priests seem to get a boost when inside the walls when the next level church is completed. I have not read this anywhere though so it may not be true. Or it may have something to do with population? Or I might be crazy. Yeah that's it. I must be the Mad Prince. Hmmm -- an alt account?????

[Agent Miles]

Here’s what I found out last night. The imams no longer gained any piety from the guild after Jerusalem was 100% Muslim, so I do not think that the guild increases piety for imams inside a city, they only get it for converting, which they do better outside a city as Rebel correctly pointed out. The imams I had in the city did however gain a Monk ancillary within about 5 turns, whereas an imam I had in a city with no guild did not ever get a Monk ancillary. I also tried keeping a spy and a merchant in a city with their respective guilds and they also gained no additional ability after they were created, although about half of the spies got the Dancer ancillary.
As Viking Prince posted, I had a Master Theologian’s Guild in Jerusalem, but all of the cities around Jerusalem also gave the “Theologian’s Guild Apprentice” trait to Imams trained in their cities, even though there was no such guild in these cities and only first level mosques.

[Silent Assassin]

Here’s what I found out last night. The imams no longer gained any piety from the guild after Jerusalem was 100% Muslim, so I do not think that the guild increases piety for imams inside a city, they only get it for converting, which they do better outside a city as Rebel correctly pointed out. The imams I had in the city did however gain a Monk ancillary within about 5 turns, whereas an imam I had in a city with no guild did not ever get a Monk ancillary. I also tried keeping a spy and a merchant in a city with their respective guilds and they also gained no additional ability after they were created, although about half of the spies got the Dancer ancillary.
As Viking Prince posted, I had a Master Theologian’s Guild in Jerusalem, but all of the cities around Jerusalem also gave the “Theologian’s Guild Apprentice” trait to Imams trained in their cities, even though there was no such guild in these cities and only first level mosques.

Thanks for the update I didn't add the chance to do some testing yesterday but I'm glad that I was in a good part right. thanks for saying so and this is one more thing that we have all learned here

Rebel6666

[whitesoxfan]

They are NOT getting better traits. However, the Theologians guild may and the Great Jama definitely give your imams good ancillaries. I had 7 priests sitting in a city once, all of which had been around for several years. I built an abbey in that city. Within 2 turns, all of them got the monk ancillary. This probably involved a bit of luck that it happened so quickly, but these buildings do get you better ancillaries.
Also, imams are messed up in vanilla, and it's ridiculously hard to increase their piety.