Why is the world softening up?

[patrick1191]

Why has the world populace become so unwilling to wage war? Is it because of the death and destruction caused by the 2 world wars or is it something else. And its not only war, Just look at the pirate situation 200 years ago we would just shoot the bastards and forget about it but now we have rules and regulations to the point were we just set them free. Basically what I am asking is why do you think the world opinion on war has changed so drastically over the past 100 years.


I edit in more examples in a little bit.

[Göteborgare]

Plenty of wars going on?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Why has the world populace become so unwilling to wage war? Is it because of the death and destruction caused by the 2 world wars or is it something else. And its not only war, Just look at the pirate situation 200 years ago we would just shoot the bastards and forget about it but now we have rules and regulations to the point were we just set them free. Basically what I am asking is why do you think the world opinion on war has changed so drastically over the past 100 years.


I edit in more examples in a little bit.

Firstly I have to reject outright the implication of your suggestion that the nations of the world have become unwilling to wage war, I think to say that shows a fairly broad ignorance of some very important recent history.

[patrick1191]

Firstly I have to reject outright the implication of your suggestion that the nations of the world have become unwilling to wage war, I think to say that shows a fairly broad ignorance of some very important recent history.

I was speaking more on the terms of people not the countries themselves and the wars we are having now are nothing compared to the ones we've had.

[C-Rob]

once the impunity of being emperor or absolute monarch left, and the government had to answer to its people, that is probably a small reason why you don't have people going in and waging war after war relentlessly.

[Bovril]

Why has the world populace become so unwilling to wage war?

1. Has it really? Hundreds of thousands have died in wars in the last decade at the very least.

2. Wars have always been initiated by elites rather than normal people. Less war is the natural result of more democracy.

3. Maybe the fact that in every major conflict of the past 50 years more civilians than military personel have dies should tell you something about modern warfare.

As regards piracy: in the 'golden age' of pircay, a huge proportion of pircay was conducted by states, and went completely unpunished. These days we are simply less hypocritical (though most governments are still very, very, hypocritical, so its not saying much).

[patrick1191]

1. Has it really? Hundreds of thousands have died in wars in the last decade at the very least.

When before hundreds of thousands would die in a month of war.

2. Wars have always been initiated by elites rather than normal people. Less war is the natural result of more democracy.

Yes and people were more accepting to it before then they are now.

3. Maybe the fact that in every major conflict of the past 50 years more civilians than military personel have dies should tell you something about modern warfare.

There is almost always more civilian deaths then combatants.

[Bovril]

When before hundreds of thousands would die in a month of war.

Only in two conflicts in world history. Besides, I was really downplaying the number of deaths so a sto be absolutely sure.

Yes and people were more accepting to it before then they are now.

Was that a good thing? I'm not sure I understand you point...

There is almost always more civilian deaths then combatants.

Actually, prior to WW2, having more civilians than military deaths was very much the exception rather than the rule.



I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. Most people in the world think the less war the better. Do you disagree? Do you like war? If so why? If not, what is the point of this thread?

[nce_wht_guy]

Because wars suck for everyone involved.

[GuineaPig]

Free trade.

[Sher Khan]

Why has the world populace become so unwilling to wage war?

People have come to realize that the cost of waging war no longer outweighs the benefits they could potentially receive from winning one.

The disruption of trade, the massive war debt one would accumulate, the economic disruption that could affect the nation for decades that comes with becoming an international pariah.

Is it because of the death and destruction caused by the 2 world wars or is it something else.

In the case of continental European wars, most certainly.

And its not only war, Just look at the pirate situation 200 years ago we would just shoot the bastards and forget about it but now we have rules and regulations to the point were we just set them free.

200 years ago? 200 years ago we acted just the same way. We dealt with North African corsairs raiding our shipping with tribute, diplomacy, naval blockades and escorts, and just a bit of military force.

Basically what I am asking is why do you think the world opinion on war has changed so drastically over the past 100 years.

It hasn't. War was always seen as the plague it was. This feeling was usually overcome with propaganda, keeping the front far away from your economic cores, and a sense that the grass will be greener just past that glorious victory and dominating peace treaty. Even still, our ancestors had the sense to know when to call it quits and when to know that war is better off avoided.

We're less susceptible to propaganda nowadays, but every so often we're whipped back up into a fervor that just can't be stopped.

[Phier]

There is a bit of pussification in the West.

While I think many would like to take the high ground and claim that it was somehow due to enlightenment, tolerance, some sort of better understanding of the human condition, the real reason that we don't feel currently threatened.

So let's say the Navy Seals would've done the easy thing and put a bullet in the head of that last Somali pirate they captured. In a lot of ways it would've made sense, there is very little to gain by questioning the man, he is too dangerous to just release, and a trial with all the media hoopla will be very expensive.

Now let's say they did do that, then one of those enlightened people find out about it. Well then you have a big mess, a lot of hand wringing, and a lot of holier than thou attitudes. In turn to that would become a big mess as well, become expensive, and of course give fuel to critics of the United States, even from nations who routinely do far worse.

Now because we do not feel threatened currently, no one in the United States or anywhere else is really worried about the Somali pirates outside of the ship captains involved, and perhaps a few insurance companies, we will continue to be enlightened and thoughtful and tolerant and bringer of justice to all.

But as soon as something happens where we no longer feel secure, where we indeed feel our families are threatened directly, that too much insult has been received, then we the enlightened tolerant people will see no problem putting a cap in their ass.

Remember, for all of the West's peace love and tolerance right now, we are perhaps the most violent people on record when it comes to war. Those genes haven't gone away.

Personally, I think it might get very ugly, and a couple of decades.

[patrick1191]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. Most people in the world think the less war the better. Do you disagree? Do you like war? If so why? If not, what is the point of this thread?

No I don't like war, and I am not advocating more war, I just wanted peoples opinions on why the west is less willing to go to that extent then they were before.

200 years ago? 200 years ago we acted just the same way. We dealt with North African corsairs raiding our shipping with tribute, diplomacy, naval blockades and escorts, and just a bit of military force.

Your speaking of the first Barbary War correct? This is a great example, in 1801 our ships were being raided by the Barbary States, So we sent a fleet down there and confronted them which resulted in 94 U.S casualties and 2000+ Barbary casualties. While the same thing is happening off the coast of Somalia and other than the recent U.S action, the pirates are able to run amok.

[gojira]

There is a bit of pussification in the West.

While I think many would like to take the high ground and claim that it was somehow due to enlightenment, tolerance, some sort of better understanding of the human condition, the real reason that we don't feel currently threatened.You feel very threatened- Arabs, terrorists, Islamists, Communists, anthrax, sleeper cells, dirty bombs, chinese spy rings, Iranian nuclear warheads, ... if there´s one population that´s neurotic to the bone it´s the US.

So let's say the Navy Seals would've done the easy thing and put a bullet in the head of that last Somali pirate they captured. Spending hundreds of millions for little military games is for sure better than actually trying to handle the humanitarian circumstances in that country that lead to so called "piracy" (I have my doubts about the official version presented in the media by the way In a lot of ways it would've made sense, there is very little to gain by questioning the man, he is too dangerous to just release, and a trial with all the media hoopla will be very expensive. "Media hoopla" as for example... a fair trial? Oh forgot, you prefer the bullet method.

Now let's say they did do that, then one of those enlightened people find out about it. Well then you have a big mess, a lot of hand wringing, and a lot of holier than thou attitudes. In turn to that would become a big mess as well, become expensive, and of course give fuel to critics of the United States, even from nations who routinely do far worse. The record of human right abusements of the US is pretty bad mate

Now because we do not feel threatened currently, no one in the United States or anywhere else is really worried about the Somali pirates outside of the ship captains involved, and perhaps a few insurance companies, we will continue to be enlightened and thoughtful and tolerant and bringer of justice to all.
====> The "I watch fancy green night bombing raids on CNN and zap away on the rare occasion when the true consequences are shown"- level of threat.

But as soon as something happens where we no longer feel secure, where we indeed feel our families are threatened directly, that too much insult has been received, then we the enlightened tolerant people will see no problem putting a cap in their ass.
===> the "honk when you wanna see Iran nuked" level of threat

Remember, for all of the West's peace love and tolerance right now, we are perhaps the most violent people on record when it comes to war. Those genes haven't gone away.

The US lead west is responsible for more than 1mio dead muslim inflicted as directed war casualities, inflicted humanitarian catastrophies and the death toll rises thanks to depleted Uranium with each following generation. The Kosovarian one might think.

Personally, I think it might get very ugly, and a couple of decades.

------------------------------------------------

You wanna see something ugly?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Warning, graphical documentary

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXx4q3qfFGw

And to quote a guy who perfectly sums the treatment with subjects as you up:

Red, White, and Blue cowardice- These colors do run!

By Tony Logan
NOT MY TRIBE - 4/04/2009 8:56PM MDT - 1 Comment

For years now, the majority of Americans have allowed their country’s leaders to murder, torture, and lie in their name, with hardly a protest against it. They allowed their Constitution to be defiled by remaining silent as their government held innocents in solitary confinement without charges and tortured them for years, all the while many of them obtusely said that no torture was involved at all as for as they were concerned.

These lies and this complicity, by politicians of both parties, with US Federal government torture and mayhem now lie open and exposed, but does the common American want to correct and apologize for their support of crimes against humanity? Do all these ‘little Eichmanns’ feel any guilt and wish to atone for it now that it has been thoroughly exposed? Read 75% Oppose Release of Guantanamo Inmates in the United States and you decide.
And remember… these are our flag-waving dumb-cluck neighbors here. Instead of facing their acts done with flag in hand, they run! That’s our society’s Red, White, and Blue cowardice on display to the world once again! This poll shows that Americans are a nation of bullies and cowards.

Comment from Tony Logan
Time: April 6, 2009, 12:08 am


America’s cowardly bully population has been polled once again… 57% want America to take military action against North Korea
What the Hell is wrong with these sick people?


http://www.notmytribe.com/2009/red-w...run-87259.html



You know my affiliation to quotes, here´s one to think about in a calm mood:

The compulsion to do good is an innate American trait. Only North Americans seem to believe that they always should, may, and actually can choose somebody with whom to share their blessings. Ultimately this attitude leads to bombing people into the acceptance of gifts.

Ivan Illich

[Phunkracy]

America’s cowardly bully population has been polled once again… 57% want America to take military action against North Korea
What the Hell is wrong with these sick people?

Now you are N.Korea supporter?

[Phier]

http://www.notmytribe.com/2009/red-w...run-87259.html

You know for a brief moment I was proud of you, I didn't see anything about Zionism or whatever else you normally like to post about.

Then I decided to click on the site.

I am no longer proud of you.

My guess if I were to import your bookmarks from your browser, I would automatically end up on a FBI watch list.

[gojira]

Watch the video then compare it to what you wrote. You will get my point of view then hopefully.

[Phier]

Watch the video then compare it to what you wrote. You will get my point of view then hopefully.

Oh I get your point of view, that is not the problem.

[AqD]

America’s cowardly bully population has been polled once again… 57% want America to take military action against North Korea
What the Hell is wrong with these sick people?

Because the NK rulers are well-known sick b-------s?

Well the americans are only one of a few peoples on earth who still have the balls to fight.

[Sher Khan]

The Barbary pirates, however, were privateers and so subjected their home nations to be responsible for their piracy.

Somalia is different. These pirates operate in a region of lawlessness. Should we repeat our actions to the letter, we will simply be harming innocents .