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  1. #1
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    Default Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    A great example of realpolitik in action. Obama wants gun control legislation, but grasps that his administration doesn't have the political capital to press forward with such a move. He has to work with the power base in existence. Republicans will not support it and the moderate Democrats will fight it.

    This won't do much for the paranoids, but it will quiet down the fringe-right while annoying the fringe-left to a degree.

    Source
    Obama pledges in Mexico to help combat arms flow from US but won't seek assault weapons ban

    By BEN FELLER
    Associated Press Writer

    MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Confronting a Mexican drug war that is "sowing chaos in our communities," President Barack Obama signaled Thursday he will not seek renewal of a U.S. assault weapons ban but instead will step up enforcement of laws banning the transfer of such guns across the border.

    Obama had pledged during his campaign to seek renewal of the ban but has bowed to the reality that such a move would be unpopular in politically key U.S. states and among Republicans as well as some conservative Democrats.

    Obama met with Mexican President Felipe Calderon, who has been conducting an aggressive fight against drug cartels and had hoped to persuade Obama to push for reinstatement of the gun ban. Obama arrived here on the first stop of a trip that will take him to a weekend Summit of the Americas in Trinidad, bringing together the leaders of 34 Western Hemisphere democracies.

    Allies in the fight against drugs, Obama and Calderon took different stands on U.S. sanctions against Cuba. Calderon said the 47-year-old U.S. trade embargo has not been successful in forcing Cuba to adopt democratic reforms.

    "I share fully the idea we do not believe that the embargo or the isolation of Cuba is a good measure for things to change in Cuba," Calderon said. "On the contrary; the reality that we see there is that the reality has not changed."

    Obama pointed to the announcement this week that the U.S. was softening sanctions, allowing Americans to make unlimited transfers of money and visits to relatives in Cuba. But he said Cuba needs to reciprocate with actions that are "grounded in respect for human rights."

    Cuban President Raul Castro, attending meetings in Venezuela, said his government is willing to discuss "everything" with Washington - including human rights, political prisoners and freedom of the press - as long as the discussion is "on equal terms." He did not specifically mention Obama's comments.

    Obama acknowledged that the United States shares responsibility for bloodshed and kidnappings in Mexico that have spilled across the border into the United States. "I will not pretend this is Mexico's responsibility alone," Obama said.

    "We have a responsibility as well, we have to do our part," Obama said. He said the U.S. must crack down on domestic drug use and the flow of weapons into Mexico.
    Obama also said the United States and Mexico must work together to stem the problem of illegal immigration. He said he favors a more orderly process for immigrants who want to come to the United States and a pathway to legalization for those already in the U.S. illegally.

    "My country has been greatly enriched by immigrants from Mexico," he said.
    The two leaders also pledged to cooperate on combatting global warming and the global recession.

    The U.S. ban on military-style assault weapons became law during the Clinton administration in 1994 and contributed to the Democrats' loss of Congress that year. It expired under the Bush administration in 2004. It had outlawed 19 types of weapons, banned certain features on firearms such as bayonet mounts, and limited ammunition magazines to 10 rounds.

    When Attorney General Eric Holder raised the idea of reinstituting the ban this year, opposition from Democrats and Republicans emerged quickly.
    Calderon made more direction mention of the U.S. politics of the matter than Obama did.

    "We know that it is a politically delicate topic because Americans truly appreciate their constitutional rights, and particularly those that are part of the Second Amendment," Calderon said.

    Obama said he still believed that the ban "made sense" but pointedly added: "None of us are under any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy." He said he would focus instead on using existing laws to stop the flow of weapons to Mexico from the thousands of U.S. gun stores along the border.

    "Now, are we going to eliminate all drug flows, are we going to eliminate all guns coming over the border?" Obama said. "That's not a realistic objective. What is a realistic objective is to reduce it so significantly, so drastically, that it becomes once again a localized criminal problem as opposed to a major structural problem that threatens stability in communities along those borders."

    Obama also sought to put a focus on the more upbeat parts of the U.S.-Mexico relationship - such as shared commerce and culture - and not just the drug violence and immigration spats.

    It was a theme he returned to on Thursday night at a dinner in his honor, held in an open-air courtyard of a Mexican museum.

    "What makes us good neighbors is a simple truth, that our people share so much more than common challenges and common interests," Obama said. "We also share values and ideals."

    Earlier, Calderon welcomed Obama to the presidential residence, Los Pinos, with an acknowledgment of the challenges: "My country is immersed in a historic transformation process. We live a robust democracy, which is also plural. We're also facing firmly the costs of the struggles in order to turn Mexico into a safer country."
    Obama announced he would ask the Senate to ratify an inter-American weapons treaty meant to take on the bloody drug trade by restricting arms trafficking.
    Just hours before Obama arrived in the country, a shootout between Mexican troops and a convoy of gunmen left 15 assailants and one soldier dead, Mexico's Defense Department said.

    The Justice Department says Mexican drug trafficking organizations represent the greatest organized crime threat to the United States.

    The Organization of American States adopted the weapons treaty in 1997 as a way to curtail dealing in illicit firearms throughout Latin America. Since then, 34 countries have signed the treaty, and 29 have ratified it. Former President Bill Clinton signed the treaty on Nov. 14, 1997, one day after it was endorsed by the OAS, but it was never acted on.

    Calderon's aggressive stand against drug cartels has won him the aid of the United States and the prominent political backing of Obama.

    Mexico is the main hub for cocaine and other drugs entering the U.S., and the United States is the primary source of guns used in Mexico's drug-related killings.
    More than 10,000 people have been killed in Mexico in drug-related violence since Calderon's stepped-up effort against the cartels began in 2006. The State Department says contract killings and kidnappings on U.S. soil, carried out by Mexican drug cartels, are on the rise as well.

    Obama has dispatched hundreds of federal agents, along with high-tech surveillance gear and drug-sniffing dogs, to the Southwest to help Mexico fight drug cartels, among many other steps aimed at addressing the escalating drug war.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Is it not ironic that an American drug war is more a threat to America than Iraqi conspiracy or Soviet aggression?

    No, you're right. It's not.


    But maybe people now need assault weapons, seeing as how proliferated they've become...
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    well at least he revoked the bush law that allowed weapons into national/state parks. the last thing i want to see when visiting those places is to see some guy with a gun.
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  4. #4
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    What the...
    He lied! I say, impeach his ass!

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Visna View Post
    What the...
    He lied! I say, impeach his ass!
    That's the spirit Visna .

    But on a more serious note I suppose this is good news, but it does not mean I'm going to be any less wary of his gun control policy.

  6. #6
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    well at least he revoked the bush law that allowed weapons into national/state parks. the last thing i want to see when visiting those places is to see some guy with a gun.
    Lots of hikers carry guns in their backpacks on national parks regardless of the law. Few park rangers would even be concerned about it. When you are out many miles from civilization an encounter with a rattlesnake, cougar and black bear will make you a believer in bringing something to protect yourself if you are attacked.

    Pepper spray will not deter a Black bear or Cougar that's hungry and determined.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Lots of hikers carry guns in their backpacks on national parks regardless of the law. Few park rangers would even be concerned about it. When you are out many miles from civilization an encounter with a rattlesnake, cougar and black bear will make you a believer in bringing something to protect yourself if you are attacked.

    Pepper spray will not deter a Black bear or Cougar that's hungry and determined.
    Indeed, a firearm is a survival tool when you are miles away from civilization. If you're lost, a firearm can mean the difference between life and death.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Lots of hikers carry guns in their backpacks on national parks regardless of the law. Few park rangers would even be concerned about it. When you are out many miles from civilization an encounter with a rattlesnake, cougar and black bear will make you a believer in bringing something to protect yourself if you are attacked.

    Pepper spray will not deter a Black bear or Cougar that's hungry and determined.
    Is a Black Bear or Cougar often hungry, though? Isn't there plenty of game in your parks, I thought they were having a field day.

    I see your point however, but I believe a handgun would suffice.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Lots of hikers carry guns in their backpacks on national parks regardless of the law. Few park rangers would even be concerned about it. When you are out many miles from civilization an encounter with a rattlesnake, cougar and black bear will make you a believer in bringing something to protect yourself if you are attacked.

    Pepper spray will not deter a Black bear or Cougar that's hungry and determined.
    Curious about how much time you've actually spent in the wild. Big cats never actively hunt humans unless they're starving, and if you are unlucky enough to have a big cat tailing you you'll be dead long before you have any chance of pulling out your gun, let alone getting an accurate shot off. Same with most bears, they stay out of the way of humans and unless it's a mother with cubs won't even pay you a bit of attention. Snakes, if you're on the trail there never out in the open so all you have to do is stay away from rocks and logs and you'll never see one.

    My job puts me out in the wild quite often and most of my work days during the year are spent out in the Florida Everglades, I've encountered all kinds of animals from deer and wild boars to gators, pythons, bears and a panther and I've never once had to pull out my gun in fear of defense. Humans aren't natural to these animals and want to have nothing to do with you, unless you're hunting if you ever have to pull a gun out in the wild then you have no clue what you're doing and shouldn't be out in the woods in the first place. 98% of all animal attacks in the wild towards humans are done because you either provoked them or fed them, the other 2% is for actual feeding purposes where the animal is starving and you're the first thing it finds and as I said above that means they're actively hunting you and in that case you stand little chance of actually getting a clear shot off. Honestly I'm more worried about getting shot by a hunter or a spooked hiker then I am of getting attacked by a wild animal.

    As for weapon laws, personally I'm all for a all out ban on assault weapons int he civilian realm. There is absolutely no reason for Joe Blow to own a functional AK-47 or M16. Now I believe that we have the right to bear arms as the founding fathers stated, but at the same time you use it as a free pass to get any gun you want, you have to realize what type of guns existed during their lives. I highly doubt they ever thought there would be weapons capable of doing what they can do today. Keep it to semi-automatic weapons, you don't need an assault rifle for sporting or protection.

  10. #10
    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    *imagines valiant champion shooting a snake*

    Honestly, there are few instances where you'd be able to shoot a mountain lion or want to shoot a bear. In either case you're already screwed.

    The only possible excuse I could see for that sort of firearm application would be in certain bear country, but even then I wouldn't advise it...

    *EDIT*- There's been Darwin Awards given to people who have attempted snake shooting. Don't try it
    Last edited by Dunecat; April 21, 2009 at 02:43 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar109 View Post
    As for weapon laws, personally I'm all for a all out ban on assault weapons int he civilian realm. There is absolutely no reason for Joe Blow to own a functional AK-47 or M16. Now I believe that we have the right to bear arms as the founding fathers stated, but at the same time you use it as a free pass to get any gun you want, you have to realize what type of guns existed during their lives. I highly doubt they ever thought there would be weapons capable of doing what they can do today. Keep it to semi-automatic weapons, you don't need an assault rifle for sporting or protection.
    Fully automatic weapons, including actual assault rifles are already very restricted, and have nothing to do with the (old) "assault weapons" ban. That was limited to firearms that had been developed from fully automatic weapons and had a certain number of a certain type of "features." Everything that silly little ban affected was all semi automatic, and you could still buy an "AK-47," for example.....it just might look a little different than what you're used to.
    Last edited by MadBurgerMaker; April 21, 2009 at 04:43 AM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Lots of hikers carry guns in their backpacks on national parks regardless of the law. Few park rangers would even be concerned about it. When you are out many miles from civilization an encounter with a rattlesnake, cougar and black bear will make you a believer in bringing something to protect yourself if you are attacked.

    Pepper spray will not deter a Black bear or Cougar that's hungry and determined.
    You know, these parks are there to protect Cougars and bears from you and not the other way around. Getting a bear shot in a national park is defeating the whole purposen why such parks were established in the first place.
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  13. #13
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangalore View Post
    You know, these parks are there to protect Cougars and bears from you and not the other way around. Getting a bear shot in a national park is defeating the whole purposen why such parks were established in the first place.
    Your right a human life is not as valuable as protected wild animals.

    As far as snakes have any of you heard of rat shot? Plus I am a good enough shot (with bullets not rat shot)I can hit a snake with a pistol. The small difference between sight and barrel enables you to accurately place a shot at very close range.

    What if you get lost and need to hunt to survive? Do you know that many people hiding from the law hide out in state and national parks?

    I have been an outdoorsman all my life. I live in Kentucky where there's plenty of forestland.

  14. #14
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    As much as I fear the intentions of the Obama-Khan. I look back at the Bush years and see how under his presidency more damage was done to the 2nd amendment than at any other time in history.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    hurray? as I have been saying for a while, Obama is anti-gun, he is just smart enough to realize that going after guns right now would throw a wrench in his other plans. Watch out for huge events, because this administration doesn't let a good tragedy go to waste...or so they say.

  16. #16
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Ah well, that's too bad, both for America and Mexico.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    I don't know if Obama is very anti-gun as Biden is.
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  18. #18
    vizi's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Good this gives me more time to find another job so that I can begin building my Anti-Government arsenal. Is anyone selling some Ground-to-Air Guided handheld rocket launchers. by chance?

  19. #19
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    I'm still confused as to why assault rifles are necessary. They seem to be too ovepowered to be put into the hands of civilians for no discernable domestic use for them.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Pres. Obama: No assault weapons ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
    I'm still confused as to why assault rifles are necessary. They seem to be too ovepowered to be put into the hands of civilians for no discernable domestic use for them.
    Overpowered compared to what? I guess you might be surprised to see what kinds of hunting rifles you can get at a place like Bass Pro Shop or Academy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hahahaha David Deas
    Thinking about it some more, perhaps losing to the the Jags and the Colts really will come as a complete surprise to you.

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