nomad vs pastoralism for pahlava

[aznflea]

k ive searched for nomadism in the search thing and i know the concept but what i dont know is the difference between the two. most threads tell you what they are but they dont tell you about them.

so i know that for the pastoralism you can get the reformed govt and settled aristocracy. what is so special about those?

and what are the core differences between nomadism and pastoralism? it seems to me that pastoralism is just superior to nomadism in general.

[Marcion]

I noticed that too. Nomad buildings only let you train horseman, whereas pastoral buildings let you train cavalry and infantry, and at least in the case of the Parthians, pastoralism gives no restrictions on what cav you can train.

Also, why are they so goddamn expensive? The "nomad migration" thing costs 1000 minae. 1000 minae for NOMADS to MIGRATE. While we're at it, why don't we throw money at the sky for being blue, and pay the birds to tweet.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Also, why are they so goddamn expensive? The "nomad migration" thing costs 1000 minae. 1000 minae for NOMADS to MIGRATE. While we're at it, why don't we throw money at the sky for being blue, and pay the birds to tweet.

If Basic Sanitation (digging sewage ditches) can reasonably cost 1000 mnai for settled factions (more expensive than basic roads), then migrating a huge caravan of men, women, children, and domestic animals across 500 - 1000 miles of unfamiliar wilderness to a new home can reasonably cost 1000 mnai for nomad factions. The money buys extra food supplies and keeps the people happy while they are on the move.

[Marcion]

If Basic Sanitation (digging sewage ditches) can reasonably cost 1000 mnai for settled factions (more expensive than basic roads), then migrating a huge caravan of men, women, children, and domestic animals across 500 - 1000 miles of unfamiliar wilderness to a new home can reasonably cost 1000 mnai for nomad factions. The money buys extra food supplies and keeps the people happy while they are on the move.

Digging sewage ditches is a separate structure. Plus, as a nomadic society, families move around all the time, it's what they're suited best to do. They know how to live off the land when travelling long distances. Hell, they should pay me for giving them new, ungrazed pastures to move into.

[aznflea]

Digging sewage ditches is a separate structure. Plus, as a nomadic society, families move around all the time, it's what they're suited best to do. They know how to live off the land when travelling long distances. Hell, they should pay me for giving them new, ungrazed pastures to move into.

LOL! that is so totally true!

[RedGuard]

The faction AI for parthia is a sad joke, they hardly ever move out of thier starting position and never hold onto regions they take from the seleucids even latter on in the game when the seleucid empire historically was made up of tarsos and antiocheia and not much else. Maybe in EB2 you could give the parthians hero untis like the william wallace script that appear when the Sseleucids take regions from them. THe PAhlava historically eventually developed into a large empire, one that challaenged the roman empire but in EB they ALWAYS remain the pitiful little band of nomads like they were when ALexander fought them in scythia.

[aznflea]

the weird thing is that i cant train any units when i go the nomad pathway except parthian horsearchers, the basic one

well that pretty much sums it up. pastoralism>nomadism.

[V.T. Marvin]

Nomadism is supposed to provide you with access to higher level cavalry units in quicker and cheaper way. But yes, the recritument appears to be broken in some regions. This could be fixed manually if you are familiar with how it is encoded in EDB. On the other hand nomadism does not allow you to build roads, walls and advanced economic structures.

Therefore in the long run it is always preferable to build pastoralism wherever you can. It pays off in the end and allows you to recruit even the highest level cavalry, some infantry and better economy structures. If you are playing as Pahlava, in Iranian regions it could be advanced into Reformed Parthian Government which in turn allows the highest development of all structures and to build a really "civilized" empire.

[Marcion]

I've recently conquered Bactria and Sogdiana as Parthians, and neither pastoral nor nomad structures seem to be allowing any kind of recruitment at all. Is this a glitch, or do they only work in your homeland?

[DraeKlae]

I've recently conquered Bactria and Sogdiana as Parthians, and neither pastoral nor nomad structures seem to be allowing any kind of recruitment at all. Is this a glitch, or do they only work in your homeland?

The settlement needs to have the 'nomad' hidden resource to be possible to construct nomadism or pastorialism AFAIK.

[Marcion]

The settlement needs to have the 'nomad' hidden resource to be possible to construct nomadism or pastorialism AFAIK.

I can construct them, they just aren't giving any unit recruitment, or anything else.

[R-teen]

I've recently conquered Bactria and Sogdiana as Parthians, and neither pastoral nor nomad structures seem to be allowing any kind of recruitment at all. Is this a glitch, or do they only work in your homeland?

Well, if you choose nomadism, after constructing "Elite Herds" and after that "Warlords Horse Herds" and "Royal Horse Herds", you should be able to recruit most of the Pahlavan Cataphracts and Horse Archers, you can also construct "High King Herds" for another type of cataphract. And by constructing Settled Community (in some settlements) you can recruit Shivatir-i Marda foot archers and Gund-i Nizagan spearmen. Choosing nomadism is the best bet for not-important cities and specially for the cities which are in steppe lands.
But if you choose Pastoralism, after constructing these buidings (note that building them in order is necessary):

Military Occupiation
Migration
Pastoralism
Nomad Market ===> Large Nomad Market
Settled Community
Elite Herds ===> Warlord's Horse Herds
Reformed Pastoralism
Advanced Settlement
Settled Aristocracy

You should be able to construct Parthian Reformed Government, which will allow you to recruit regional Pahlavan units, such as Thanvare Payadag (Parthian foot archers), Gund-i Palta (Parthian Skirmishers), Gund-i Nizagan, Parthian Archer-Spearmen along with most of the Parthian cataphracts and horse archers and in the top of them, Grivpanvar, the Elite Pahlavan Cataphract which will be available after the marian reform AFAIK. It's better to choose this type of settlement for your important cities.
Parthian Reformed Government also allows you to build the main buldings of Pahlava which you can't in nomadism, such as walls, higher level of agriculture, roads, granaries, ports and many more buildings.

Hope this helps.

[aznflea]

Well, if you choose nomadism, after constructing "Elite Herds" and after that "Warlords Horse Herds" and "Royal Horse Herds", you should be able to recruit most of the Pahlavan Cataphracts and Horse Archers, you can also construct "High King Herds" for another type of cataphract. And by constructing Settled Community (in some settlements) you can recruit Shivatir-i Marda foot archers and Gund-i Nizagan spearmen. Choosing nomadism is the best bet for not-important cities and specially for the cities which are in steppe lands.
But if you choose Pastoralism, after constructing these buidings (note that building them in order is necessary):

Military Occupiation
Migration
Pastoralism
Nomad Market ===> Large Nomad Market
Settled Community
Elite Herds ===> Warlord's Horse Herds
Reformed Pastoralism
Advanced Settlement
Settled Aristocracy

You should be able to construct Parthian Reformed Government, which will allow you to recruit regional Pahlavan units, such as Thanvare Payadag (Parthian foot archers), Gund-i Palta (Parthian Skirmishers), Gund-i Nizagan, Parthian Archer-Spearmen along with most of the Parthian cataphracts and horse archers and in the top of them, Grivpanvar, the Elite Pahlavan Cataphract which will be available after the marian reform AFAIK. It's better to choose this type of settlement for your important cities.
Parthian Reformed Government also allows you to build the main buldings of Pahlava which you can't in nomadism, such as walls, higher level of agriculture, roads, granaries, ports and many more buildings.

Hope this helps.

yes that does help thank you.

do you have to build in that order? if that is so then i have seriously screwd up my parthian campaign because ive chosen pastoralism for all my settlements and i didnt build nomad markets until way later.

[Andy1984]

So did I, but I don't think I've screwed up my campaign. I'd rather have acces to horse archer-reinforcements as soon as possible instead of some more advanced government structures.

[R-teen]

yes that does help thank you.

do you have to build in that order? if that is so then i have seriously screwd up my parthian campaign because ive chosen pastoralism for all my settlements and i didnt build nomad markets until way later.

Yes you have to build them in order.

[aznflea]

Yes you have to build them in order.

oh my god so does that mean i screwed up 90% of my towns?

man that annoys me. can the EB team plz fix this because this is just ridiculous.

[merlinuscdxx]

yes that does help thank you.

do you have to build in that order? if that is so then i have seriously screwd up my parthian campaign because ive chosen pastoralism for all my settlements and i didnt build nomad markets until way later.

This is a little bit more of a detailed explanation of the reform process.

All of thers buildings are required for the gov't reform. This is the given build order because it guarantees that you won't inadvertently disable a building that you need. I'll expand the reasoning behind it a bit.

1.Military occupation. (must be built, required for gov't reform but not for pastoralism)
2.Migration (required for pastoralism)
3.Pastoralism (self explanatory)
4.Large Nomad Market (may be built any time before the reform, but is required)
5.Settled Community (may be upgraded beyond this level if you wish, but is capped and recruitment disabled by 'Advanced Settlement')
6.Elite Herds -> Warlords Horse Herds (must be built BEFORE reformed pastoralism, as reformed pastoralism disables the construction of Herds line buildings, also may be upgraded beyond this level, see Settled Community)
7.Reformed Pastoralism (self-explanatory)
8.Advanced Settlement (any time after ref. pastoralism-disables rec'tment from settlement line bldgs)
9.Settled Aristocracy (any time after ref. pastoralism-disables rec'tment from herds line bldgs)
10.Reformed Parthian Government. (required everything above)

*1. Military occupation must come first IIRC, because Migration may disable the building of Military occupation.

A little hint on keeping recruitment available while reforming. If you wish to keep recruiting cavalry reinforcements in cities that you're reforming you can keep one in the region at the pre-reform levels (ex. keep a town in the region with your fully upgraded herds line un-reformed, since you can build up past warlords horse herds and still cap them off with the "settled aristocracy" building) until you get recruitment in your reformed towns in the region. After that you can quickly build the "settled aristocracy" and then the Reformed Gov't and barracks as usual for a settled faction.

[aznflea]

you need to build the 'herd' buildings. the elite herd stuff. units arent availabe until the second herd building.

you can use cheats to find out the difference between the two i realised. if you need to input the same cheat twice you just press the up button and it will input the exact same msg as the oe immediately above it.

[eggthief]

And how should the preference be for the other two nomad factions? Cause as the Sauromatea I've always had the feeling that nomadism was better.

[Marcion]

It seems that you can't start recruiting cavalry until you get to warlord's herds, that's what was going on with my towns. I think I might release a custom version of descr_buildings.txt one of these days that makes these buildings cheaper and more useful, since it's pretty stupid to build a bunch of stuff that does nothing... That is, if there's demand for it beyond me.