Need help understanding trade via diplomacy

[ferv0r]

I'm having a lot of fun with this game, but the diplomacy screen is starting to frustrate me.

I am a longtime 4X player (hundreds of hours with Civ, GalCiv, etc.), but this is my first real try at this series. Perhaps I'm asking too much for diplomacy to have the same level of detail and control in ETW. But as it is right now, there is too much that is nonsensical or just plain annoying.

For example, let's say that I want to make some early money and sell one or two techs. It's either a guessing game to figure out the price or until I realize a given nation will never make a deal. Trying to trade one tech can take a long, long, long time...all annoying and not fun. I usually don't bother trying to sell tech any longer, even though it's hugely helpful at various stages of the game to have the extra money.

Some problems:

- Some nations are completely unreasonable and illogical...is this a 'feature' in the game..AI with emotions? Many of them are suicidal and won't make deals even when it will kill them if they don't.
- Right now, I only have a vague idea of what things are worth in the game and honestly, I'm getting more confused the longer I play.
- Some nations will simply refuse to make a deal, no matter how good my relationship.
- Some items are untradeable. This can also ruin deals that would otherwise work. Some techs are untradeable, which is just plain stupid.
- It's sometimes far too easy to make alliances and trade agreements and far too difficult to trade tech, military access or regions.
- The AI rarely makes counteroffers and often the counteroffer makes the deal worse for them.
- When trying to make a trade agreement, often all it takes is a little extra gold. Then it's a guessing game to figure out how much gold. If I get within range, the AI sometimes pops up with a counteroffer...otherwise, I'll just waste time guessing.

Partial Wishlist:

- If an item is untradeable, then grey the damn thing out. Otherwise, I waste time trying to put together a deal.
- Option to have the AI make me an offer or complete trades on the table. If I offer X, then I want the AI to make me an offer instead of me forcing me to play a guessing game.
- Have the AI always make an counteroffer, if a deal is possible. Otherwise, tell me it's impossible.
- I need a way to make other factions declare war/make peace with other factions and help me when I need them.

[Varaaki]

The Total War series is focused on combat. Diplomacy is a vestigial addendum at best; particularly subtle diplomatic overtures. The people who tout the fabulous diplomatic AI of game _____ (insert EU, EU clone, Civ, etc) fail to recognize and account for where this game came from.

This isn't a 4X game, and it's not a historical simulation. It's a game about war, and I don't find it bizarre that the diplomacy was, is, and likely always will be a relatively... limited feature of the game.

That said: I've found that money is the big motivator in regards to the AI. Yes, it's a guessing game, but the way money flows in this game, one can afford to not nickle and dime it. So you want military access, the AI's "secret number" is 27k, you tried 15k and 25k and got turned down, so you went with 40k. Got ripped off? Maybe. But again, money flows like a river; you'll make it back soon enough.

[Faris ad Din]

Or the AI has really disproportionate values on its assets. I've heard techs can't be bought for money (or any amounts less than five-to-six digit figures, STILL with sweeteners) - it takes entire regions traded to them for that. As for most other deals - I've heard that granting military access is often valued (perhaps OVERvalued) by the AI. Testing trade of military access - either indefinite or the max limited time military access, 20 turns - got some deals hashed out.

However, I really don't like giving military access willy nilly except to allies who can and will send military help IF I need it - which is almost never - so let's say it takes a ridiculously sweetened trade and state gifts to get some allies of somebody I attacked to agree to a peace treaty. Personally, I just resolve to destroy them later mercilessly for their unreasonableness.