Which side do you symphatize with in the Russian Civil War?

**Nikitn** · April 19, 2009, 03:56 PM

So, whom do you sympathize with? The Bolsheviks, or the White's? Both did horrible things to each other, and to the civilian population. The Red's revolted due to many reasons, brutality of the Czarist government, the fact that the government was weak, the war, lack of food, poverty and very unfair distribution of wealth. The Bolsheviks were supported by the Germans.

Later in the Russian civil war many western (and Japan) powers intervened on the side of the Whites, and various countries even attacked Russia and tried to grab land. But in the end, the Bolsheviks were simply too strong.

The civil war left Russia divided, and completely destroyed country. On top of that, the Bolsheviks weren't any better then the Czarist government when it came to brutality, and concentration of power.

I myself sympathize with both, and am unsure of who I should pick. But I know pretty certainly that majority of the forum will pick the Whites

.

**Phunkracy** · April 19, 2009, 04:03 PM

Whites obviously-they had nicer uniforms.

Another reason maybe that I hate communism.

**Fibur** · April 19, 2009, 04:05 PM

Which size? The biggest one obviously.

Your poll is biased furthermore, opposition to bolshevism was not limited to tsarist "Whites".

**Nikitn** · April 19, 2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fibur

Which size? The biggest one obviously.

Your poll is biased furthermore, opposition to bolshevism was not limited to tsarist "Whites".

Of course not. But I didn't say "tsarist whites" only whites

. They had all kinds of factions fighting the Bolsheviks.

Bah, I'm going to go with Bolsheviks for the sake of it.

Originally Posted by Kasey

Neither.

Its hard to pick a side when both managed to be so appalingly brutal. I've seen a picture of a man executed by Kolchak's forces, he was hanging from a tree by an ankle, his genitals had been cut off, and there was a branch stuck up his arse.

When the Czech Legion and their allies took Kazan they brutally murdered all Bolshevik supporters they found, gouging out their eyes and dismembering them in some cases. Then they pinned their party cards to their bodies.

Then Denikin was a brutal anti-semite, and not a favourite with the peasants either.

Then the Bolshevik's policy of War Communism is just horrible, as are some of the things done by the Cheka.

If forced to pick a side, I pick the Kronstadters. Mainly because they stuck by their ideals. They wanted a government formed of the Soviets, and they were prepared to fight and die for that. But when they saw that Lenin was starving their families, and was creating a dictatorship, rather than the state they had envisioned, they werent afraid to stand up to him either. And in the end they fought a valiant last stand against larger numbers.

Then pick whites. Everyone who opposed Bolshevik revolution = White.

**Last Roman** · April 19, 2009, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fibur

Which size? The biggest one obviously.

Your poll is biased furthermore, opposition to bolshevism was not limited to tsarist "Whites".

the Whites were not just pro-tsarists, but a "collection" (if it can even be called that) of pretty much all counter-revolutionary groups opposed to the Bolsheviks.

Though there were other anti-Bolshevik groups such as the "blacks" and "greens"

**Hookah Smoking Caterpiller** · April 19, 2009, 04:06 PM

Reds all the way.

**Pallantides** · April 19, 2009, 04:10 PM

The Whites

**Behind The Mask** · April 19, 2009, 04:13 PM

Its hard to sympathize with either...

I respect Lenin (Though no where near as much as I used to) but I feel that if he was a good man, his actions during the Civil War speak otherwise.

Though, then again I cant speak, I wasn't there and I cant accurately explain the situation. I'm sure the two sides hated eachother bitterly and the fact that it was a civil war meant that either side could attain victory if they fought properly, possibly making the situation dire until a clear victor was revealed...

I cant tell, part of me believes the Bolsheviks and Lenin did want to do good (I believe they supported education, which is in my book a very good thing for the masses in Russia) however, looking at it I can't help that feel it is revealing of not only their characters but of much of mankind.

**Garrigan** · April 19, 2009, 04:17 PM

Neither.

Its hard to pick a side when both managed to be so appalingly brutal. I've seen a picture of a man executed by Kolchak's forces, he was hanging from a tree by an ankle, his genitals had been cut off, and there was a branch stuck up his arse.

When the Czech Legion and their allies took Kazan they brutally murdered all Bolshevik supporters they found, gouging out their eyes and dismembering them in some cases. Then they pinned their party cards to their bodies.

Then Denikin was a brutal anti-semite, and not a favourite with the peasants either.

Then the Bolshevik's policy of War Communism is just horrible, as are some of the things done by the Cheka.

If forced to pick a side, I pick the Kronstadters. Mainly because they stuck by their ideals. They wanted a government formed of the Soviets, and they were prepared to fight and die for that. But when they saw that Lenin was starving their families, and was creating a dictatorship, rather than the state they had envisioned, they werent afraid to stand up to him either. And in the end they fought a valiant last stand against larger numbers.

**Bovril** · April 19, 2009, 04:33 PM

The Ukranian anarchists and various ethnic independence groups. Certainly not the Bolsheviks or the Tzarists.

**Garrigan** · April 19, 2009, 04:40 PM

Then pick whites. Everyone who opposed Bolshevik revolution = White.

I dont think the Kronstadt sailors can be classified as whites. I mean they helped to defeat several white armies when they fought for the Bolsheviks. They were in the frontlines at Kazan, for instance. Any anyway, they were generally regarded as an elite unit for the Bolsheviks. They stormed the winter palace and helped put Lenin in power, could you really call them whites?

**Nikitn** · April 19, 2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kasey

I dont think the Kronstadt sailors can be classified as whites. I mean they helped to defeat several white armies when they fought for the Bolsheviks. They were in the frontlines at Kazan, for instance. Any anyway, they were generally regarded as an elite unit for the Bolsheviks. They stormed the winter palace and helped put Lenin in power, could you really call them whites?

Yes. They defected to Whites, as well as others.
I would consider them whites in the end.

**C-Rob** · April 19, 2009, 04:44 PM

UP the reds!

**Garrigan** · April 19, 2009, 04:48 PM

They didnt "defect" to anyone. They declared themselves independant after nearly all the major white armies were defeated.

They didnt join anyone, and there was no one left to join in any case.

EDIT: In any case I dont think Whites is actually a good enough term. Telling us to pick between them implies to me that something united them, when all it really was was their hatred of the Bolsheviks.

The People's Army in the east was formed of Social Revolutionaries who'd fled the main cities in the Red Areas. Whereas the Volunteer Army in the south was made up of a large number of ex-tsarist army officers. Quite a contrast.

**Nikitn** · April 19, 2009, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kasey

They didnt "defect" to anyone. They declared themselves independant after nearly all the major white armies were defeated.

They didnt join anyone, and there was no one left to join in any case.

What I mean, is that they turned on the Reds. Whites is pretty much an umbrella term of those who were hostile to Reds and their revolution.

**Garrigan** · April 19, 2009, 04:52 PM

What I mean, is that they turned on the Reds. Whites is pretty much an umbrella term of those who were hostile to Reds and their revolution.

True. But I think for a poll you probably need slightly more detail. I mean the greens (who I think Bovril mentioned) are generally classed separately to both the whites and reds.

**Nikitn** · April 19, 2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kasey

True. But I think for a poll you probably need slightly more detail. I mean the greens (who I think Bovril mentioned) are generally classed separately to both the whites and reds.

Yeah, but they weren't a major faction. More like local militia who didn't want anything to do with anything. And yes, maybe I should have made it more accurate, but it's too late now...

**Garrigan** · April 19, 2009, 05:05 PM

Well no. Obviously the Greens were never going to topple the soviets and bring anarchism to Russia. My point was more that there are some groups that are accepted as belonging to neither side.

But yeah, it is too late now.

**Aldgarkalaughskel** · April 19, 2009, 05:14 PM

Why's their no "none" in the poll? Voted whites in the end, although they did the same bad things in the civil war, they represented the progressive ideas. Nazis and soviet communists are scum of the earth and should be treated as such.

**Bovril** · April 19, 2009, 05:14 PM

Certainly the many, many independence movements could not have said to have been either reds or whites. And since the anarchists didn't want a state and fought both white and red armiers, its hard to say they were anything other than a seperate faction.