legio consularis

[QUINTUS FABIUS MAXIM]

I would suggest to the EB2 team to introduce 2 new type of maniple units for the Romani in the early era.. I mean to make recruitable, in the consular legion, both PEDITES SOCIORUM and EQUITES SOCIORUM, that would not replace the EXTRAORDINARII, but they will complete the choise of the Roman legion during the expansion into the Italan peninsula and then in the Mediteranean sea. In fact the SOCII(the allies of the Roman League) had to provide the same number of Roman infantrymen and the triple of Roman cavarlymen. I think the Roman legion's backbone (HASTATI, PRINCIPES and TRIARII plus EQUITES ROMANI) would be recruitable, at least before the Polybian reform, only in Rome. The rest of the legion would be constituted by the allies, this is in my opinion a good solution to recreate the historical situation of the period! bye and keep hangin' in the great work guys!:sparta:

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

I think there's a submod for EB 1 that focuses on Socii allies. Undoubtedly there will be one for EB2.

[Flyboy]

I think those that implement the socii as additional hastati, principes or triarii have it right. If your only able to recruit legions in Rome and Capua, then your going to need additional line infantry to bolster well...your lines. Personally though I just like having the standard line infantry recruitable in all Italian provinces plus whatever locals I can get. Either works however as long as I can raise an army with the proper amount of line infantry without waiting ten turns.

[QUINTUS FABIUS MAXIM]

I think those that implement the socii as additional hastati, principes or triarii have it right. If your only able to recruit legions in Rome and Capua, then your going to need additional line infantry to bolster well...your lines. Personally though I just like having the standard line infantry recruitable in all Italian provinces plus whatever locals I can get. Either works however as long as I can raise an army with the proper amount of line infantry without waiting ten turns.

but the socii were a fundamental part of the roman army and their regiments were as strong as roman ones.. In the story of roman republic they had a very important role during the wars that permitted rome to become the strongest nation in the mediteranean sea and in that period there was not a homogenous legion, but as I told before, there was a mixture of both roman and italian maniples until Marius standardized the legion with his military reform in 107 a.C. I think and I hope, the EB II team is valuing how to implement a historically accurate allied and roman recruiting system.

[Watchman]

True enough, but far as I know they historically fought as fully integrated part of the triplex acies system - making them for most intents and purposes (particularly, unit stats and hence slots) identical to the Citizen hastati-principes-triarii-equites troops. Ergo, in EB1 they are subsumed into those units and the only separate ones are the cream-of-the-crop Extraordinarii.

[QUINTUS FABIUS MAXIM]

True enough, but far as I know they historically fought as fully integrated part of the triplex acies system - making them for most intents and purposes (particularly, unit stats and hence slots) identical to the Citizen hastati-principes-triarii-equites troops. Ergo, in EB1 they are subsumed into those units and the only separate ones are the cream-of-the-crop Extraordinarii.

if I am not wrong the allies fought on the flanks of the roman infantry.. but I actually know that they, into a game, would be a photocopy of the hastati-principes-triarii.. maybe, as Flyboy told, they should be recruitable by the romani along with the regular legionarii..

[Flyboy]

but the socii were a fundamental part of the roman army and their regiments were as strong as roman ones.. In the story of roman republic they had a very important role during the wars that permitted rome to become the strongest nation in the mediteranean sea and in that period there was not a homogenous legion, but as I told before, there was a mixture of both roman and italian maniples until Marius standardized the legion with his military reform in 107 a.C. I think and I hope, the EB II team is valuing how to implement a historically accurate allied and roman recruiting system.

I understand, what I'm saying in terms of game play system each allied state should be able to recruit line infantry for the roman military. Only having Capua and Roma puts the Romanii at a huge disadvantage. Along with the line infantry of course you'll have you Samnite infantry, and you Campanian cavalry, and your Etruscan hoplites, and you Tuscany war chickens and so on so fourth.

[Flyboy]

As far as I know the Socii fought as both line infantry and wing infantry. Rome sometimes recruited them within the line infantry, though sometimes they were individual units . I guess this depended on the skills and training of that class of allies. To be frank I doubt Rome could muster the armies that it did without bolstering its line infantry with socii.

[QUINTUS FABIUS MAXIM]

As far as I know the Socii fought as both line infantry and wing infantry. Rome sometimes recruited them within the line infantry, though sometimes they were individual units . I guess this depended on the skills and training of that class of allies. To be frank I doubt Rome could muster the armies that it did without bolstering its line infantry with socii.

you're right.. without the socii, rome would have not gained the control all over the mediteranean area, but I think that, almost during camillan era, allies fought separately from the romani.. i have a book that gives a complete explanation of the tactics of roman legions during the republican era.. as far as possible i'll check it and I'll get sure of the modality of the early republican army's deployment

[Flyboy]

Pre marian tactics are interesting, because based on how many times something goes wrong when I attempt it, it must have gone wrong a lot as well.

[Watchman]

Well, they did have a bad habit of losing an army or a few to start off most major wars.

[Flyboy]

Yeah, strategically that sucks, however there were plenty campaigns that went badly post marian too. But tactically the roman pre marian tactics seemed way too inflexible to me. The legions were much more successful when they trashed the three line advance.

[Ludens]

Yeah, strategically that sucks, however there were plenty campaigns that went badly post marian too. But tactically the roman pre marian tactics seemed way too inflexible to me. The legions were much more successful when they trashed the three line advance.

That probably wasn't simply a consequence of the tactics. Pre-Marian tactics had to take into account that the soldiers weren't necessarily well-trained or experienced, specially the hastati. A third line was therefore necessary if the first didn't last long enough. The successful Marian commanders (i.e. the ones we hear about) generally had well-trained troops, and could therefore dispense with the third line and use far more complex tactics.