Agents

[Dave Scarface]

Do you think inquisitors got nerfed too much in the patches for M2TW? I ask this because it seems to me that excommunication is no longer something to be feared. I mean you no longer have to worry about an inquisition being held in your Kingdom because all inquisitors do now is kill your priests? Basically because so many people whined about their faction leader getting killed or there faction heir CA were forced into this change.

But I actually think there was nothing wrong with the original idea in the first place. Why should an inquisition not be able to put a heretic King on trial and execute them? The Papacy does not have that much actual control over Catholic leaders in this game. Other than giving them a few missions or asking them to go on a Crusade. So I ask why failure to follow such orders from the Pope should not result in such punishment? I for one am not scared of inquisitors, as far as I am concerned if you want to be heretical in this game you should face the consequences.

Dave

[Koljan]

Well, as far as i could tell from playing the papal states in some other mod (the campaign that comes with retrofit mod) the Papal states is pretty powerful in terms of military force, it;s jsut that its not used.

As for inquisitors - when i go Exco i just assassinate them on sigh. Heck, i use them as assasin target practice even when im not exco'd.
Infact, most times even when the inquisitor does come for someone, he fails mostly.
I think Excommunication doesn't bear the penalties it should.
I have never seen an AI faction dropping an alliance because of exco.
Never seen alliance forged between Non-catholic and excomunicated catholic as a result of exco, or anything like this.
AI just doesnt seem to care enough.

[Zerosliver]

If you can somehow put them on a hunt against the denounced faction leader, it would be great.

[Dave Scarface]

Well, as far as i could tell from playing the papal states in some other mod (the campaign that comes with retrofit mod) the Papal states is pretty powerful in terms of military force, it;s jsut that its not used.

Another point, the papal states has been made to be almost entirely passive in most AI mods now. Do you think this is a good thing? Should the Pope stay in the city of Rome for the whole duration of the campaign? Or should he be more active and able to expand?

Infact, most times even when the inquisitor does come for someone, he fails mostly.
I think Excommunication doesn't bear the penalties it should.
I have never seen an AI faction dropping an alliance because of exco.
Never seen alliance forged between Non-catholic and excomunicated catholic as a result of exco, or anything like this.
AI just doesnt seem to care enough.

Your points have been duely noted. In a campaign dominated by Catholic factions there needs to be a tougher Pope.

If you can somehow put them on a hunt against the denounced faction leader, it would be great.

Yes you can, its pretty simple for anyone to do actually. All you need to do is open up the descr_campaign_db.XML and delete these two lines:

<inquisitor_target_leaders bool="false"/>
<inquisitor_target_heirs bool="false"/>

Dave

[Koljan]

I dont think the pope should actively grab land unless a direct neighbor is exco'd and is a threat to Rome.
I do think Papal states should be more involved in occupation of territory though.
You see, some regions are of great strategic importance, but are not "worth while" to keep - whether because of distance to capital, or other negative modifiers. Even pure strategical inconvenience.
One such example is florence in Part Troix campaign.
i gave it away to the venetians because it was important to me that it is not in the hands of the enemy, but I dont have to dedicate resources to defend it.
In single player I do this with Papal states sometimes, to also gain some favor points on the way.
this creates a "Peace keeping" troops effect, much like present day modern military peacekeeping missions.
the reason i use papal state if not jsut favor though. It's the fact it's passive and most likely wont use the position achieved to expland and grab more, thus not unbalancing my campaign progress from my agenda.

If the pope was to be aggressive, such tactics wont work anymore and that would be a shame.

it Would be cool if the pope would more actively interefere in feuds between catholics other then just excomunicating.
sending Men to War to prevent men going to war is rather paradoxic, but makes sense in some very human way.
Unfortunately i dont see how a pope army can march from rome to Denmark for example without getting stuck in an eternal sea of pathfinding failiures.

[Vernah]

Im honestly not really afraid of the inquisitors, they dont really do anything except have an extremely cool voice that I like to click and hear once in awhile. Imo, they should be able to kill the royalty, I remember this from before on another mod and when I saw one coming I made my noble flee to another city haha.

[Dave Scarface]

Okay, thanks for the replies guys, I have decided to give inquisitors back there original role. They will now be able to put family members on trial.

I will not be making the Papal States more aggressive. However I will be making Catholic factions more likely to attack any excommunicated Cathoilc factions and more likely to break alliances with them.

thanks,
Dave

[Koljan]

I would like to express my completely heterosexual manly love to you, Dave.

3.9 repack #2?

[Dave Scarface]

3.9 repack #2?

Just to confirm, I am not updating patch 3.9 again anytime soon. I may however make a few AI changes available in an attachment which you guys can try out if you like. All well and good if I find anything else worth fixing as well I may update the patch again. Only very small updates of the current patch 3.9 from here on if they are needed.

Dave

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Can you improve spies a bit? They are bloody useless and get killed 8 times out of 10 when they try to infiltrate a city.

[pwf224]

And/or somehow reduce the AI priority for recruiting spies. Something I have noticed in player single player hotseat games (playing as multiple factions by myself), is that when I switch to an AI faction, they have about 50981234 spies. I feel like the rest of the agents are in good balance but spies are useless and the AI recruits far too much.

[Dave Scarface]

Can you improve spies a bit? They are bloody useless and get killed 8 times out of 10 when they try to infiltrate a city.

No, spies are fine as they are, if you send a spy straight into a town then its no wonder your spies die so much. I always start off with spying easy targets first and build them up from their on. Spies are far from useless as I continue to demonstrate in my hotseat campaigns. Pat is also getting sick and tired of assassinations ask him These agents can become very powerful and I am not going to increase their ease of use.

And/or somehow reduce the AI priority for recruiting spies. Something I have noticed in player single player hotseat games (playing as multiple factions by myself), is that when I switch to an AI faction, they have about 50981234 spies. I feel like the rest of the agents are in good balance but spies are useless and the AI recruits far too much.

No way exists for moddifying the AI priority for agents in the mod files, sorry. Their recruitment does not work like the military units.

Dave

[FortressofRain]

I agree that the inquisitors should be kept with their original intent. I actually didn't even notice that change until you mentioned it. I'd also like to see the Pope grabbing land from neighboring excommunicated factions. I don't approve of the idea of a Papal army marching all the way to Ireland, but grabbing land from the italians, french, germans, or even byzantines or moors wouldn't be terrible. Not sure how this would change game balance though.

Also, as far as spies are concerned. Can't you increase the price or upkeep to make the ai recruit less? Not sure how the ai recruit priority works in M2TW via price and upkeep. I know it mattered in Rome, but for agents.

[Slanted]

I was fine with inquisitors on how they were. It fit the period and gave the Papacy immense power with the ability to easily kill really powerful kings, agents, ect. When they were nerfed I felt no real reason to listen to the Pope as being excomunicated or having low favor had no really big negatives.

[FortressofRain]

Thanks for the change suggustion. Already reverted mine back. Is that the only nerf that the catholic factions got in the patch?

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

personnaly I never agreed with the inquisitors, especially if excommunicated, cause it don't take no assasin too kill an inquisitor.

Historically the inquisitor requires one of two things too do his work, either the support of the local lords and their military, or where this is lacking, the support of foriegn lords and their even LARGER militaries too do his dirty work. In the latter case the aforementioned lords are also inquisitioned. See the Cathars of southern france.

IN reality any inquisitor who tried too ply his trade in a nation under excommunication would find himself run down in the night by the local constible or whacked by the lord personal hit men.

It has always peeved me that I need a super assasin and can't just run the little bugger down with the troops... boy imagin how pissed the pope would be if you killed his inquisitor with an army

[aduellist]

It has always peeved me that I need a super assasin and can't just run the little bugger down with the troops... boy imagin how pissed the pope would be if you killed his inquisitor with an army

Ah, but you can run them down with troops. All it takes is 9 units (less if some terrain feature restricts movement). Surround the offending Inquisitor with enough units that he has nowhere to move. Then move a unit on top of him. He will make immensely satisfying noises and fall over dead.

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

Ah, but you can run them down with troops. All it takes is 9 units (less if some terrain feature restricts movement). Surround the offending Inquisitor with enough units that he has nowhere to move. Then move a unit on top of him. He will make immensely satisfying noises and fall over dead.

oh no way dude!!!! That would have saved half my royal line in my last scottish campaign, I didn't have a family member with a piety over three and that was a pious nobleman, the average was 0. Those bastards gutted the royal line

thank you so much homie imma toast those bastards now

MUAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA

[Dave Scarface]

Ah, but you can run them down with troops. All it takes is 9 units (less if some terrain feature restricts movement). Surround the offending Inquisitor with enough units that he has nowhere to move. Then move a unit on top of him. He will make immensely satisfying noises and fall over dead.

Lol, I have to try this out for myself now you said that

[Zerosliver]

Lol, I have to try this out for myself now you said that

You didn't know this? It's a bug and it's hilarious!