Turkish Government takes up populist policy to evict Monastery from land

**byzantineklibanophori** · April 17, 2009, 09:37 AM

http://www.aina.org/releases/20090206160829.htm

Well done AKP and the ruling Turkish government....they certainly know how to pick a fight....

Nasty monks, who do they think they are coming from an indigenous people living in the region for over two millenium?

Kudos to the democratic minded Turks (mentioned in article) who are showing their support for the monastery

**Carach** · April 17, 2009, 09:46 AM

sounds like the political pressure on the turks will be enough to stop anything bad happening to one of the oldest monastries in the world

**PointOfViewGun** · April 17, 2009, 10:08 AM

The treatment of minority property of the Turkish government is not new. It's not an issue of religion though. It's more about power. Turkish government probably stay silent for a long time to push it under the rug.

**Carach** · April 18, 2009, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by TheDarkLordSeth

The treatment of minority property of the Turkish government is not new. It's not an issue of religion though. It's more about power. Turkish government probably stay silent for a long time to push it under the rug.

the two are often related, especially in such parts of the world as Turkey

**Turk** · April 17, 2009, 10:09 AM

assyrian agency,what a joke lol
The site is a total joke what are Assyrians?These guys today are definetly NOT Assyrians,they are kurdish christians or whatever population lives there
In South East are many MOnasteries anyway you shouldnt cry if one gets closed,many mosques get closed as well ,and who are you anyway to ask such a question,we think we are the rulers of that part of the world

**Nikos** · April 17, 2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Turk

assyrian agency,what a joke lol
The site is a total joke what are Assyrians?These guys today are definetly NOT Assyrians,they are kurdish christians or whatever population lives there
In South East are many MOnasteries anyway you shouldnt cry if one gets closed,many mosques get closed as well ,and who are you anyway to ask such a question,we think we are the rulers of that part of the world

No, they are Assyrians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria.../Syriac_people

Who are we? We are concerned about minority rights in Turkey, why should this monastery be closed?

**Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић** · April 17, 2009, 10:19 AM

Тhat's some poor evasive maneuvering right there Turk... care to elaborate more on the state of religious rights in your country in general?

**Turk** · April 17, 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nikos

No, they are Assyrians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria.../Syriac_people

Who are we? We are concerned about minority rights in Turkey, why should this monastery be closed?

Thanks for posting Wikipedia link,its useless

,they cant be Assyrians they dont exist anymore

**Mythos** · April 17, 2009, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Turk

Thanks for posting Wikipedia link,its useless

,they cant be Assyrians they dont exist anymore

Like the Kurds didn't exist a couple of decades back? Let go of the "deep state" propaganda and recognise the fact that Turkey has a lot of minorities, large and small.

**Crimson Scythe** · April 17, 2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mythos

Like the Kurds didn't exist a couple of decades back? Let go of the "deep state" propaganda and recognise the fact that Turkey has a lot of minorities, large and small.

Acknowledging that they exist is one thing, granting them legal rights is quite another, especially given the unique legal characteristics of minorities in Turkey as they are spelled out in both the Turkish constitution and the Treaty of Lausanne. In Turkey, the official minorities are granted some significant leeway that minorities in other countries usually don't have, though, admittedly, the application of these legal rights has been haphazard on a number of occasions. The Turkish government simply can't give minority rights, as they are defined in Turkish law, to all minorities, as this would tear the country apart, through ethnic and sectarian conflict.

Now, if this is the intention, however...

**Nikos** · April 17, 2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Turk

Thanks for posting Wikipedia link,its useless

,they cant be Assyrians they dont exist anymore

They exist, there is no way around it.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...39620/Assyrian
I guess Britannica is lying to right?

**Mithie** · April 17, 2009, 11:18 AM

It's inside Turkey's own borders, and the closure was supported by due process; so... what's the problem here?

Тhat's some poor evasive maneuvering right there Turk... care to elaborate more on the state of religious rights in your country in general?

There are PLENTY of churches and monasteries in Turkey. This is a civil issue; not a religious one.

**Nikos** · April 17, 2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Mithie

It's inside Turkey's own borders, and the closure was supported by due process; so... what's the problem here?

It's a violation of minority rights.

**Mithie** · April 17, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Nikos

It's a violation of minority rights.

A lot of things are a violation of minority rights. That's what democracies do - violate minority rights because the majority happen to disagree. Gay marriage ban in California? Violation of minority rights. Gun control laws? Violating minority rights. Bulldozing a Hindu shrine on I 287 in NYC to make room for a bypass? Violation of minority rights.

Just because the "minority" here happens to be a majority in your country doesn't make a lick of difference. The important thing here is that the Turkish government followed through with legal due process in making the decision.

**Nikos** · April 17, 2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mithie

A lot of things are a violation of minority rights. That's what democracies do - violate minority rights because the majority happen to disagree. Gay marriage ban in California? Violation of minority rights. Gun control laws? Violating minority rights. Bulldozing a Hindu shrine on I 287 in NYC to make room for a bypass? Violation of minority rights.

Doesn't make it right.

Just because the "minority" here happens to be a majority in your country doesn't make a lick of difference. The important thing here is that the Turkish government followed through with legal due process in making the decision.

I wasn't aware Assyrians were a majority in the United States. Destroying an ancient monastery due process or not is wrong.

**Mithie** · April 17, 2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Nikos

Doesn't make it right.

It is within the legal framework of the Turkish democratic government, however.

I wasn't aware Assyrians were a majority in the United States. Destroying an ancient monastery due process or not is wrong.

Well - I thought you were coming from a "religious minority" point of view.

**Mithie** · April 17, 2009, 11:57 AM

It's still wrong. I would protest the destruction of an important Turkish or whatever nationality site as well. I realize it's legal under Turkish law, but I still disapprove on a historical and ethical basis.

Well, yes, it a shame, probably, and if enough people are up in arms about it, they can move to appeal the decision; but until they do, c'est la vie.

**Nikos** · April 17, 2009, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mithie

Well, yes, it a shame, probably, and if enough people are up in arms about it, they can move to appeal the decision; but until they do, c'est la vie.

We can only hope!

**Crimson Scythe** · April 17, 2009, 01:57 PM

Nikos, the biggest problem here is that the "politicians, churches and human rights organizations" that are pushing for the Turkish government to protect this church are ignoring the fact that the Assyrians are NOT one of the officially recognized religious minorities in Turkey (i.e., Greek and Armenian Orthodox Christians, along with Jews). Furthermore, the Assyrians had the opportunity to claim this status in the founding days of the Turkish Republic, but REFUSED to do so. Thus, the Turkish state can't step in on the side of the Assyrians, period. All it can do is mediate (which, I'm sorry to say, it isn't doing because of the recent elections - Assyrians simply don't have enough votes to matter).

I would also remind readers of this thread that the dispute is between the monastery and the local KURDISH villagers, who have historically been there just as long as the Assyrians. Second, if the OP had read the article more closely, it would be quite clear that this isn't an issue over the 'Evil Turkish State' picking a fight with peaceful Christians, but rather a dispute over unused but usable land owned (it would seem, IMO) by the monastery that the three surrounding villages need. Basically, it's a problem of distributing scarce resources, which is a classic economic problem. Tradition can't trump economics.

That said, however, it would seem that the local villages are abusing Turkish law to satisfy their own need/greed. AKP's needing votes for the recent local elections probably didn't help matters. I'd guess that now that the elections are over and that the legal bills and efforts might be taken care of by volunteers, the situation will be settled soon enough, and in a more or less equitable way. The OP's efforts to use the issue for anti-Turkish propaganda aside, of course.

**Каие** · April 17, 2009, 02:44 PM

A total travesty. May god damn people who think it is OK to destroy great pieces of History. God damn them to hell. I hope the Turks stop this in it's tracks.