bush era "torture" techniques officially revealed

[antaeus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8003023.stm

The US has published four secret memos detailing legal justification for the Bush-era CIA interrogation programme.

The fourth document, dating from 1 August 2002, was written by OLC lawyer John Yoo and signed by his colleague Jay Bybee.

It contained legal authorisation for a list of specific harsh interrogation techniques, including pushing detainees against a wall, facial slaps, cramped confinement, stress positions and sleep deprivation.

The memo also authorises the use of "waterboarding", or simulated drowning, and the placing of a detainee into a confined space with an insect.

Announcing the publication of the memos, Mr Obama said: "I believe that exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release.

"Withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time," he explained.

But he also gave an assurance that "those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice... will not be subject to prosecution."

sticking someone in a box with a scary insect... thats just downright mean.

is it a stab in the back to the bush administration?

is it justifiable?

if not, should someone be held accountable?... and if so who?

[Visna]

It only confirms what was already known. Prosecuting lower ranked officials for this will just be dismissed as scapegoating. I don't think much can be done now, Americans were appearantly more concerned about Clinton getting a blowjob than some A-rab being tortured, or there would have been a case against Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld ages ago.

[NONOPUST]

That's it? Man I thought it would be worse.

Oh well, can't do it anymore...

[vizi]

So when will the other administrations torture methods be released? We already know Clinton's....he played the saxophone to his victims...

[pnokey]

Releasing the memos gives reason to not prosecute CIA officials that were involved. Showing the torture was approved by Bush means he's the only to blame in a sense(and of course he'll never be prosecuted).

[vizi]

When was torture not approved in the USA? I have heard reports of subcontracting out people to nations that torture people for years...

[antaeus]

When was torture not approved in the USA? I have heard reports of subcontracting out people to nations that torture people for years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

there's been several films about lately... rendition and body of lies..

personally, i'd rather have people subjected to "semi legal" torture techniques within the united states than subjected to random third world torture where there is no consideration of any laws

but its a bit of a choice between two evils... and its hard to suggest anything remotely torturous has any moral justification when you're fighting against people who you label morally corrupt.

it instantly loses the moral high ground and thus the justification to act against the "evil do-ers" of the world.

[vizi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

there's been several films about lately... rendition and body of lies..

personally, i'd rather have people subjected to "semi legal" torture techniques within the united states than subjected to random third world torture where there is no consideration of any laws

but its a bit of a choice between two evils... and its hard to suggest anything remotely torturous has any moral justification when you're fighting against people who you label morally corrupt.

it instantly loses the moral high ground and thus the justification to act against the "evil do-ers" of the world.

Yea...I don't know. I am against torture. But, as far as I see it, it isn't about to stop. Things will always be done in the name of national security that will be horrible.

(I have no faith in humanity, unlike Vercingetorix_Defeated, who is still in the process of losing it. )

[Vercingetorix_Defeated]

Yea...I don't know. I am against torture. But, as far as I see it, it isn't about to stop. Things will always be done in the name of national security that will be horrible.

(I have no faith in humanity, unlike Vercingetorix_Defeated, who is still in the process of losing it. )

With that kind of defeatist attitude, things always WILL be bad, yes.

Basically you're saying "I am powerless to stop this from happening, so obviously it will always happen."

Luckily for the rest of us, Barack Obama doesn't have your defeatist attitude. He decided to become president, and then put a stop to this travesty of the rule of law, and restored at least some vestige of the notion that the United States actually has a moral and legal standard.

And don't worry, after reading a few more of the bigoted, racist, ignorant, extreme right wing posts that are so common on this forum (unfortunately), I'm sure I won't have any faith in humanity left either.

[vizi]

With that kind of defeatist attitude, things always WILL be bad, yes.

Basically you're saying "I am powerless to stop this from happening, so obviously it will always happen."

Luckily for the rest of us, Barack Obama doesn't have your defeatist attitude. He decided to become president, and then put a stop to this travesty of the rule of law, and restored at least some vestige of the notion that the United States actually has a moral and legal standard.

And don't worry, after reading a few more of the bigoted, racist, ignorant, extreme right wing posts that are so common on this forum (unfortunately), I'm sure I won't have any faith in humanity left either.

Okay.

[Ulyaoth]

With that kind of defeatist attitude, things always WILL be bad, yes.

Basically you're saying "I am powerless to stop this from happening, so obviously it will always happen."

Luckily for the rest of us, Barack Obama doesn't have your defeatist attitude. He decided to become president, and then put a stop to this travesty of the rule of law, and restored at least some vestige of the notion that the United States actually has a moral and legal standard.

And don't worry, after reading a few more of the bigoted, racist, ignorant, extreme right wing posts that are so common on this forum (unfortunately), I'm sure I won't have any faith in humanity left either.

Oh please, pathetic people that have any faith in this numbnuts elitist prick Obama is the main thing that's made me lose faith in humanity. Extreme right wing, most the people on this forum are extreme left wing.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Oh noes, we can't put people in cramped spaces with insects or slap their faces, how inhumane! Never mind that they were out there trying to kill us and hate our guts...

[Vercingetorix_Defeated]

Oh noes, we can't put people in cramped spaces with insects or slap their faces, how inhumane! Never mind that they were out there trying to kill us and hate our guts...

We can only thank the (Invisible and Hypothetical) God(s) that people like you are not in any position of power in Western society, and hopefully never will be again.

You obviously have absolutely NO understanding of the concept of justice.

[Visna]

Oh noes, we can't put people in cramped spaces with insects or slap their faces, how inhumane! Never mind that they were out there trying to kill us and hate our guts...

In 1968 an Army officer was courtmartialled for helping to waterboard a Vietnamese prisoner. Now, with that in mind, I would just love for you to explain to me what has changed so dramatically about waterboarding since then.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

In 1968 an Army officer was courtmartialled for helping to waterboard a Vietnamese prisoner. Now, with that in mind, I would just love for you to explain to me what has changed so dramatically about waterboarding since then.

Waterboarding I oppose and think that they shouldn't have done it. However, the rest of this stuff can hardly be called torture. A medieval inquisitor would laugh at such a title. Other than waterboarding, the rest of this stuff is nothing like the media portrays Guantanamo. You would think that the place is a regular Spanish inquisition when listening to the leftist news networks.

[NLegari]

I fail to see how this is such a horrible thing. Governments have been using torture since governments first came into being. Why stop now?

[Vercingetorix_Defeated]

I fail to see how this is such a horrible thing. Governments have been using torture since governments first came into being. Why stop now?

You fail to understand why torture of all things is a horrible thing?

What the hell is wrong with some of you people on this forum?

If somebody came and took you into a dark room for no legal reason and then tortured YOU, would you consider that fair? Would you think it was horrible?

People like you disturb me. I can only hope your barbaric viewpoint diminishes around the world, though people like you reduce my faith in humanity in general.

[NLegari]

You fail to understand why torture of all things is a horrible thing?

What the hell is wrong with some of you people on this forum?

If somebody came and took you into a dark room for no legal reason and then tortured YOU, would you consider that fair? Would you think it was horrible?

I do not like torture at all. But I do not hate the government for using it. I think they should use it more often, it will reduce the crime rate.

[Visna]

I do not like torture at all. But I do not hate the government for using it. I think they should use it more often, it will reduce the crime rate.

That certainly depends on what you call a crime...

[Vercingetorix_Defeated]

I do not like torture at all. But I do not hate the government for using it. I think they should use it more often, it will reduce the crime rate.

Wow.

Just wow.

I honestly did not believe that THIS level of ignorance existed in the world. Nobody can be this ignorant by accident. This guy has to be sarcastic, or joking, or something. There is no way he is being sincere.